Very nice Compur w. Tessar killed?

JPD · Jul 29, 2008

So I got this excellent looking early rim-set Compur with a clean 4,5/13,5 Tessar. It was working nicely on all speeds except the 1sec. where the clockwork stopped in the middle of the second.

I tried to lubricate the gear axles with tiny amout of oil, but it didn't help, so I decided to clean the shutter in naptha. Since the aperture blades are made of some type of paper, I had to take the shutter mechanism out of the housing.

I cleaned the mechanisms, but now I can't reassemble the shutter correctly it seems... Nothing works. There are a lot of small pieces and springs, and I can't find the problem...

How irritating is that? I never should have started tinkering with it. :rolleyes:

Now, is it worth it to send the shutter to a repairman? Can it be as much work as a compleat CLA to just reassemble the shutter correctly?

Ian Grant · Jul 29, 2008

You could almost certainly find another working shutter for less than the cost of repair. A repairer takes a shutter to bits methodically you'd give one a nightmare

Those blades are metal not paper !!!

Ian

Greg_E · Jul 29, 2008

I'm betting there is a small cam that you need to preload when putting the cover on to make it work. There are numerous websites that go over rebuilding the Compur shutters, they should get you close enough to get the cover on properly.

JPD · Jul 29, 2008

I thought the repairer could see what I did wrong and correct it. All the pieces are in place.

And yes, the aperture blades are indeed paper. Many dial-set Compurs and Compound shutters have paper irises.

http://www.skgrimes.com/compound/index.htm

Ole · Jul 29, 2008

The slow times not working properly on old dial-set Compurs is sometimes due to too little friction instead of too much. A few drops of oil will make sure they don't work at all!

Ole · Jul 29, 2008

BTW: Some Compur and Compound shutters have paper iris blades. I've only seen it on ones I've bought from the USA, never on German or other European buys.

JPD · Jul 29, 2008

Ole said:
The slow times not working properly on old dial-set Compurs is sometimes due to too little friction instead of too much. A few drops of oil will make sure they don't work at all!

This is a 1928 rim-set Compur.

However, yesterday I DID work on a dial-set Compur. This time it was only the anchor in the escapement that needed little naptha to work again. It's for another of my 13,5cm Tessars, so I can still use one if the rim-set Compur above can't be repaired.

Ole said:
BTW: Some Compur and Compound shutters have paper iris blades. I've only seen it on ones I've bought from the USA, never on German or other European buys.

The mentioned shutters were bought from Germany, came from Zeiss Ikon Maximar cameras, and both have paper irises.

Ole · Jul 29, 2008

Any day when I learn something new is a good day.

Thanks!

Fotoguy20d · Jul 29, 2008

This might help a bit:

http://pheugo.com/cameras/index.php?page=compurearly&WEBMGR=45d04753d2bfbe1c59e5ad187d7d6a07

Ole · Jul 29, 2008

Fotoguy20d said:
This might help a bit:

http://pheugo.com/cameras/index.php?page=compurearly&WEBMGR=45d04753d2bfbe1c59e5ad187d7d6a07

That's a rim-set Compur. The dial-set compur is an entirely different beast, both inside and out:

Fotoguy20d · Jul 29, 2008

Ole said:
That's a rim-set Compur. The dial-set compur is an entirely different beast, both inside and out:

This is how the thread started:

"So I got this excellent looking early rim-set Compur with a clean 4,5/13,5 Tessar"

SOmewhere I have some info on dial set compurs. I've poked around inside a couple of #2 dial set units. I have a rim set #1 which is slow and I was going to have a try at cleaning it up myself using this guidance but ahven't gotten to it yet.

Dan

Ian Grant · Jul 29, 2008

Ole as usual is a mine of information.

I have a 1919 16.5 cm Tessar in an early Dial set Compur and that does have metal shutter & iris blades. It's strange that they'd use an inferior material.

Was there a shortage of the metal needed for blades at some stage ?

Ian

Ole · Jul 29, 2008

My ooops.

Since "old dial-set Compurs and Compunds" were mentioned, my brain switched gears. Or perhaps the slow escapement didn't catch, which is what sometimes happens with over-lubed dial-set Compurs...

The paper blades may indeed be a WWII shortage kind of thing - anyone have any other good reason for lack of thin spring steel?

JPD · Jul 29, 2008

Yes it's a rim-set Compur. The early type with the locking screw for the cover hidden under the aperture scale.

Fotoguy20d, thanks for the link, but I have already been there.

Grrr, no matter how much I try, it looks good but something feels stuck, or the shutter stays open, or all the speeds are the same, or...

Not sure why they used paper. Maybe because matte black paper scatters less light than blued steel?

Ole · Jul 29, 2008

One more thing:

There are very many different versions of rimset Compurs, at least one of which must NOT be cocked without being fully assembled. There's a little spring that goes sproing if you do that, and only a very good repair person (i.e. Carol at Flutot's or Adam at SKGrimes) will be able to fit it back together. It took me six hours to give up...

JPD · Jul 29, 2008

Ole said:
The paper blades may indeed be a WWII shortage kind of thing - anyone have any other good reason for lack of thin spring steel?

No war in 1928, and it was a couple of years after the inflation. I also have a Gauthier Ibsor with paper iris. Maybe we could ask Friedrich Deckel if he remember?

Oh, wait...

Ian Grant · Jul 29, 2008

Ole said:
The paper blades may indeed be a WWII shortage kind of thing - anyone have any other good reason for lack of thin spring steel?

Except this is a 1928 Compur, or is it ? The lens maybe a 1928 Tessar in an newer shutter ? Compur shutters have serial numbers too.

Aren't springs, shutters & aperture blades made from a type of Gun-metal ?

Ian

JPD · Jul 29, 2008

Ole said:
One more thing:

There are very many different versions of rimset Compurs, at least one of which must NOT be cocked without being fully assembled. There's a little spring that goes sproing if you do that, and only a very good repair person (i.e. Carol at Flutot's or Adam at SKGrimes) will be able to fit it back together. It took me six hours to give up...

I worked on it all night, until it looked like a fuzzy ball of grey cotton. My eyes are still tired.

I don't know. Maybe I'll leave it as it is, or ask someone to fix it for a couple of 120 rolls of APX 25. If I'm lucky I will win on Lotto and be able to pay for a repair.

I'm waiting for an Eurynar (dialyt) in a dial-set Compur. Bought it as-is, so I'm holding my thumbs that the shutter works. Dial-set Compurs are easier to work on, though.

BrianShaw · Jul 30, 2008

I remember a sign I once saw in a clock repair shop.

It read:
Clock Repair
$10
$100, if you watch
$1000, if you tried repairing it yourself.

I hope you hit the Lotto - you might need lots of money!
Good luck.

Ole · Jul 31, 2008

JPD said:
... I'm waiting for an Eurynar (dialyt) in a dial-set Compur. Bought it as-is, so I'm holding my thumbs that the shutter works. Dial-set Compurs are easier to work on, though.

Rodenstock came late to the standardisation of shutter sizes. The only lens I've found which fits into the (dial-set) shutter of a damaged 13,5cm Eurynar is another 13,5cm Eurynar!

Ian Grant · Jul 31, 2008

I'm sure my Eurynar is a larger thread than the Compur, I tried the 1950's 150mm f4.5 Tessar cells, and they didn't fit. (SAme size threads as the 135mm).

Ian

JPD · Jul 31, 2008

BrianShaw said:
I remember a sign I once saw in a clock repair shop.

It read:
Clock Repair
$10
$100, if you watch
$1000, if you tried repairing it yourself.

I hope you hit the Lotto - you might need lots of money!
Good luck.

They usually don't like amateur repairers, no. I sent a picture of the shutter mechanism to two repairmen. I hope they are humble and friendly.

JPD · Jul 31, 2008

Ole said:
Rodenstock came late to the standardisation of shutter sizes. The only lens I've found which fits into the (dial-set) shutter of a damaged 13,5cm Eurynar is another 13,5cm Eurynar!

Hurrah!

I'm planning to persuade my retired father to visit his old workplace to make an adapter for my 6,8/16,8 Dagor to fit in a larger Compur. He use to say "no, I can't just...", but after that he can't just leave the "problem" unsolved.

Very nice Compur w. Tessar killed?

JPD

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