Vertical Streaks In 4x5 Negatives?

n2mf · Dec 23, 2014

I tray developed two 4x5 negatives of the same shot and ended up with wide vertical bands as you may be able to see in this example. At first I thought it was the scanner, but looking closer, I realized it's in the negatives. Each has the same bands in the same areas. Leads me to believe it's exposure somehow. I don't see how otherwise two negatives could end up with the same bands after tray processing. Each negative was developed separately.

MDR · Dec 23, 2014

Light leak, or oxidation during the development process causing uneven development, the neg was not submerged.

maciekz · Dec 23, 2014

If they're not *exactly* aligned between the neatives this could be related to the structer of the "ridges" on the bottom of your tray. Do you develop emulsion side down? How do you agitate the film? Can you post the scans of both negatives?

L Gebhardt · Dec 23, 2014

Looks like a light leak, probably from the film holder not being seated fully. Could also be a gap where the bellows isn't tight to the frame.

Jim Noel · Dec 23, 2014

I vote for light leak.

n2mf · Dec 23, 2014

MDR said:
Light leak, or oxidation during the development process causing uneven development, the neg was not submerged.

I've tried everything I can to create a light leak with my camera and I can't get one to show up. I don't know what causes "oxidation during the development", so I don't know how to reply to that. And, I do believe the negatives were submerged.

n2mf · Dec 23, 2014

maciekz said:
If they're not *exactly* aligned between the neatives this could be related to the structer of the "ridges" on the bottom of your tray. Do you develop emulsion side down? How do you agitate the film? Can you post the scans of both negatives?

I develop emusion side up and the ridges in my trays are going opposite of the streaks. I rock the trays for agitation. The streaks are in the same spot on each negative.

n2mf · Dec 23, 2014

I will say this, the streak isn't nearly as visable in the other negative. Much more faint.

Ken Nadvornick · Dec 23, 2014

Was the negative with the more visible streaks allowed to sit in-camera (with the slide withdrawn) for a longer period of time than the negative with the less visible streaks? Might be an indirect clue.

Ken

n2mf · Dec 23, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
Was the negative with the more visible streaks allowed to sit in-camera (with the slide withdrawn) for a longer period of time than the negative with the less visible streaks? Might be an indirect clue.

Ken

No.

Sirius Glass · Dec 23, 2014

i think that it is a light leak too.

Dr Croubie · Dec 23, 2014

I'm going to vote against light leak, if only for the fact that every light leak I've ever had seems to 'bloom' away from the source of the leak, I've never had one so perfectly straight like that before.
As to what it is instead, no idea though...

Ken Nadvornick · Dec 23, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
Was the negative with the more visible streaks allowed to sit in-camera (with the slide withdrawn) for a longer period of time than the negative with the less visible streaks? Might be an indirect clue.

n2mf said:
No.

Then that may in itself be an indirect clue...

If the duration the dark slide was pulled was unchanged, and light direction and intensity falling on the camera was unchanged, and camera position between negatives was unchanged, and the nature of any light leak was unchanged, then the location and intensity of the fogged portion of the negatives should have been identical.

That they are not identical thus may point away from a light leak in the camera or holders as being a cause. Unless of course one of the other constraints also changed.

We are also conditioned to always think in terms of the obvious. It may be worthwhile to think outside the box. When the holders were loaded, was the room/bag completely dark? Was the box containing the sheets in a fixed open position? Were the sheets laying emulsion side up? Were they picked up for loading at varying intervals?

Ken

n2mf · Dec 23, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
Then that may in itself be an indirect clue...

If the duration the dark slide was pulled was unchanged, and light direction and intensity falling on the camera was unchanged, and camera position between negatives was unchanged, and the nature of any light leak was unchanged, then the location and intensity of the fogged portion of the negatives should have been identical.

That they are not identical thus may point away from a light leak in the camera or holders as being a cause. Unless of course one of the other constraints also changed.

We are also conditioned to always think in terms of the obvious. It may be worthwhile to think outside the box. When the holders were loaded, was the room/bag completely dark? Was the box containing the sheets in a fixed open position? Were the sheets laying emulsion side up? Were they picked up for loading at varying intervals?

Ken

I've not experienced any problems with light leaks with my camera on other shots. I'm now leaning to the history of the film I used...I purchased a lot of fresh and expired film from a photographers estate. Most all that I've shot from the lot has been fine, but some Tri-x I tried had some spotty fogging issues. These two negatives in question were from another opened box of film from that lot which I hadn't tried before. I think this is the "outside the box" part that I overlooked. When I can, I will try a couple more from the box...see what happens..and update here.

Ken Nadvornick · Dec 23, 2014

n2mf said:
These two negatives in question were from another opened box of film from that lot which I hadn't tried before. I think this is the "outside the box" part that I overlooked. When I can, I will try a couple more from the box...see what happens..and update here.

Good idea.

Maybe also take a sheet (preferably the very next one from the same side of the stack in the open box you previously loaded from) and develop it immediately, without even a trip to the holder or the camera, thus factoring those variables out entirely.

Perhaps even overdevelop it on purpose to tease out any fainter defects since it would have lived deeper in the stack.

Then see if it shows the same telltale fogging pattern.

Ken

n2mf · Dec 23, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
Good idea.

Maybe also take a sheet (preferably the very next one from the same side of the stack in the open box you previously loaded from) and develop it immediately, without even a trip to the holder or the camera, thus factoring those variables out entirely.

Perhaps even overdevelop it on purpose to tease out any fainter defects since it would have lived deeper in the stack.

Then see if it shows the same telltale fogging pattern.

Ken

Good ideas and tips...Thank you.

Christopher Walrath · Dec 23, 2014

What film is it? I once purchased a box of inexpensive Arista printing paper and about half of the 100-ct box had some kind of weird pre-exposure shape. It was indeterminate just what had caused it. It was pre-purchase as it was the same on many consecutive sheets.

I bring that up to say that if it lesser film being used then quality control may be lacking and chalk it up to spend a little more next time. Again, not knowing the film used here.

Dennis S · Dec 23, 2014

Christopher Walrath said:
What film is it? I once purchased a box of inexpensive Arista printing paper and about half of the 100-ct box had some kind of weird pre-exposure shape. It was indeterminate just what had caused it. It was pre-purchase as it was the same on many consecutive sheets.

I bring that up to say that if it lesser film being used then quality control may be lacking and chalk it up to spend a little more next time. Again, not knowing the film used here.

That was one thing I found also. The cheap stuff is great to learn on but any quality prints or negs require the best. Really shows up on the larger format film.

hamradio · Dec 24, 2014

How are you developing it? I was having all sorts of streaking issues with 4x5 in my print drum. Eventually, I began inverting the drum up every 1.5min during agitation, in addition to sliding the negs to the middle, as I think the endcap was creating a weird wave inside.

Christopher Walrath · Dec 24, 2014

n2mf said:
I tray developed two 4x5 negatives of the same shot and ended up with wide vertical bands as you may be able to see in this example. At first I thought it was the scanner, but looking closer, I realized it's in the negatives. Each has the same bands in the same areas. Leads me to believe it's exposure somehow. I don't see how otherwise two negatives could end up with the same bands after tray processing. Each negative was developed separately.

View attachment 100055

Not drum in this case.

n2mf · Dec 24, 2014

Christopher Walrath said:
What film is it? I once purchased a box of inexpensive Arista printing paper and about half of the 100-ct box had some kind of weird pre-exposure shape. It was indeterminate just what had caused it. It was pre-purchase as it was the same on many consecutive sheets.

I bring that up to say that if it lesser film being used then quality control may be lacking and chalk it up to spend a little more next time. Again, not knowing the film used here.

Delta 100

Old-N-Feeble · Dec 24, 2014

Are you using a camera with a focal plane shutter?

fotch · Dec 24, 2014

I would skip the camera completely and develop the film without exposure, same way & see if it is the film itself, like post #15.

n2mf · Dec 24, 2014

Old-N-Feeble said:
Are you using a camera with a focal plane shutter?

No.

n2mf · Dec 24, 2014

fotch said:
I would skip the camera completely and develop the film without exposure, same way & see if it is the film itself, like post #15.

That's the first thing I'm going to try.

Vertical Streaks In 4x5 Negatives?

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