Velvia archive longevity before fading?

tomfrh · Jun 28, 2015

Hello,

I mainly shoot velvia and occasionally provia films. How long can I expect my slides to last before serious fading discoloration?

Will I get 25 years? 50?

Is there anything simply I can do to increase the life?

Tom

AgX · Jun 28, 2015

Not projecting them...

trythis · Jun 28, 2015

Also depends on how good the chemistry is I am guessing. My grandfather's e6 slides vary quite a bit; some are magenta only, others have full color, from the early 1950s and up. Hard to know what is ektachrome or kodakchrome but usually the e6 had the various issues.

Typos made on a tiny phone...

Trail Images · Jun 28, 2015

Is there anything simply I can do to increase the life?

I started using Velvia when first released. They still look good from those days. I do keep them in original sleeves, placed in plastic hanging sheets in a file cabinet in a closet.

Oren Grad · Jun 28, 2015

Study chapter 5 of Wilhelm's permanence book:

Dead Link Removed

Short answer re what to do to maximize life: store in safe materials, in a cool, dry, dark location.

RobC · Jun 28, 2015

+1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIkSCiUzD6Q

gone · Jun 28, 2015

I don't trust the Wilhelm results. They're not in real time, they're extrapolated. Or they were the last time I was concerned about this and looked at them. I trust actual results over years and/or decades.

Having said that, slides are not what I would call archival no matter what, as we're talking dyes here. Some colours are more fugitive than others, so it depends on what are the predominant colours on your slides. Then there's the question of processing and storage. So really, no one really knows. Your slides may last a much different time than mine due to all the variables.

Just store them in the coldest and darkest manner possible I suppose, and don't let humidity get to them.

RobC · Jun 28, 2015

Freeze them

Bob Carnie · Jun 28, 2015

I think the biggest factor in colour transparency or colour negative longevity is the way in which the original lab processed , and washed the films.

If the process line was not tightly controlled , it does not matter what film you use, the chances are there is going to be problems with original lab, laziness or cleanliness.
Unfortunately this takes about 30 years before the problems start showing themselves.

benjiboy · Jun 28, 2015

I would think that Fuji would have the best idea about this matter and must have done some testing of the longevity of their films, I suggest you contact their technical department for a definitive to your question.

Alan Klein · Jun 28, 2015

I have 120 Velvia 50 from 30 years (RVP) that seem to look OK. Just stored in their original plastic sleeves in a dark box in a closet. But RVP had been re-formulated a few years ago, I believe. Ben's suggestion to check with Fuji considering especially if there is a new formula is a good one.

tomfrh · Jun 28, 2015

AgX said:
Not projecting them...

Projection is the main reason I like slides. How quickly does projection fade them?

tomfrh · Jun 28, 2015

I just checked that Wilhelmn site. It suggests projected slides can handle in the order of hours, which is more than I'll ever do. Phew!

Paul Verizzo · Jun 28, 2015

As RobC says, freeze them. And/or, scan them into the devil's own lair, digitize them. Oh, the howls from the purists.......

peter k. · Jun 28, 2015

Being an ole 'art.. , I'm sure there going to outlast me!
If they don't, .. I'll know I've won...

MattKing · Jun 28, 2015

Paul Verizzo said:
As RobC says, freeze them. And/or, scan them into the devil's own lair, digitize them. Oh, the howls from the purists.......

Good luck getting anything out of a digitization process that comes close to the qualities of a projected transparency.

wiltw · Jun 29, 2015

Oren Grad said:
Study chapter 5 of Wilhelm's permanence book:

Dead Link Removed

Short answer re what to do to maximize life: store in safe materials, in a cool, dry, dark location.

Fuichrome is the most resistant to any light exposure induced fade, Velvia is only a bit worse than Fujichrome, but both are very much less prone to fade due to light than any of its competitors.

"Fujichrome Velvia Professional Film, a very
sharp, extremely fine-grain 50-speed film introduced in
1990, fades somewhat more rapidly during projection
than other Fujichrome films, but Velvia nevertheless is
still more stable than Ektachrome when projected."

" Fujichrome Velvia Professional Film, a very sharp
and extremely fine-grain 50-speed E-6 film introduced in
1990, is somewhat less stable when projected than standard
Fujichrome; however, Velvia is significantly more stable
than Ektachrome or Kodachrome. Current Agfachrome
RS and CT professional and amateur films, although significantly
improved compared with earlier Agfachrome E-6
films, are inferior to Fujichrome and Ektachrome in both
projector-fading and in dark storage. "

As for 'dark fade', Velvia is decided mediocre and in the middle of the pack for all color transparency materials, for fade while kept in the dark.

railwayman3 · Jun 29, 2015

tomfrh said:
Projection is the main reason I like slides. How quickly does projection fade them?

I have a large number of slides, 30-40 y.o., from my late father who used them entirely for projection many times in lectures and the old-fashioned "slide show evenings), various makes but mostly Kodachrome and Ektachrome plus a few Agfa. When not in use, kept in sleeves, in darkness and normal room temperature. They almost all look just fine even now.

I think that the answer is that with normal projection, a few minutes at a time, and normal use, for, say, printing or scanning, a properly-processed slide will last as long as I or my kids will ever need. If you're wanting real archival permanence (like 100-200 years), obviously this would have to be considered seperately, but that's the same for paper, digital or any other media.

DREW WILEY · Jun 29, 2015

Keep them in a cool dry place. I've shot all the Fuji chrome films from their inception, including the older Fuji 50 prior to Velvia, and haven't
seen any evidence of fading yet. But I store these in archival paper envelopes with air circulation around the boxes. Mildew is a far greater risk than fading. Kodachrome is a different animal completely. I've seen 5x7 Kodachromes taken of Hollywood celebrities possibly 70 years ago that look like they were taken yesterday. My own experience with various media often conflicts with what Wilhelm wrote based upon
extrapolated accelerated aging tests, which always has inherent flaws. His opinion obviously carried more weight when he reviewed older
media and how this was stored, projected, etc. There is simply no substitute for real time. That's why I take any claim of archival characteristics from any recent media like inkjet with a grain of salt. It's basically marketing BS until there's a proven track record.

tomfrh · Jun 29, 2015

DREW WILEY said:
Keep them in a cool dry place. I've shot all the Fuji chrome films from their inception, including the older Fuji 50 prior to Velvia, and haven't
seen any evidence of fading yet. But I store these in archival paper envelopes with air circulation around the boxes. Mildew is a far greater risk than fading. Kodachrome is a different animal completely. I've seen 5x7 Kodachromes taken of Hollywood celebrities possibly 70 years ago that look like they were taken yesterday. My own experience with various media often conflicts with what Wilhelm wrote based upon
extrapolated accelerated aging tests, which always has inherent flaws. His opinion obviously carried more weight when he reviewed older
media and how this was stored, projected, etc. There is simply no substitute for real time. That's why I take any claim of archival characteristics from any recent media like inkjet with a grain of salt. It's basically marketing BS until there's a proven track record.

Does anyone still process Kodachrome?

DREW WILEY · Jun 29, 2015

Nope. It's now officially a dinosaur.

railwayman3 · Jun 30, 2015

tomfrh said:
Does anyone still process Kodachrome?

No....it can be processed as a B&W negative, but there's now no practical way of colour processing.

Paul Verizzo · Jul 1, 2015

MattKing said:
Good luck getting anything out of a digitization process that comes close to the qualities of a projected transparency.

Not hard at all. Especially since what little difference that may ultimately exist, no one will care about. They just be glad to have those images of those old relatives in funny clothes. They won't care about Dmin, max, or anything else. Just that it exists. And, no projector required!

DREW WILEY · Jul 1, 2015

I disagree. Nearly a hundred years ago there were slide shows using three aligned lantern projectors that were superior to anything today in terms of color purity and saturation. Then Technicolor found out how to do that in moving images, which has never been surpassed in that category. Convenient by modern standards? No. But frankly, I think a true slide show using an old stack of Kodachromes and even a cheap projector has more impact than anything digital. Lions and tigers are almost extinct. Maybe the next generation will think of pit bulls as the most vicious predator on the planet. But there was a time even lions and tigers seemed like little tabby cats compared certain Pleistocene cousins running around the landscape. Things go extinct for other reasons than impact, especially when price and profit are involved. I would utterly love to see Kodachrome available again, especially in 8x10 sheet film. Of course, I probably couldn't afford to buy
and process a sheet of it either, so extinction history would just repeat itself.

MattKing · Jul 1, 2015

Paul Verizzo said:
Not hard at all. Especially since what little difference that may ultimately exist, no one will care about. They just be glad to have those images of those old relatives in funny clothes. They won't care about Dmin, max, or anything else. Just that it exists. And, no projector required!

I expect that you misread the most important word in my post - "qualities".

Note that I used the plural, not the singular.

The immersive experience of a well projected slide. The near three dimensional feel, the colour , the sense of presence.

It is like seeing a movie projected in a full size movie theatre, vs. watching it on your phone.

It is great that you can also obtain quite serviceable prints and web postings by scanning your slides. But they won't replace the additional benefits of optical projection.

Velvia archive longevity before fading?

tomfrh

AgX

trythis

Trail Images

Oren Grad

RobC

gone

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Bob Carnie

benjiboy

Alan Klein

tomfrh

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Paul Verizzo

peter k.

MattKing

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wiltw

railwayman3

DREW WILEY

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