Velvia 50 & 100 storage

dslater · Oct 17, 2012

Hi all,
So I've just read on another site a claim that Velvia 50 will last for as long as 10 years if not longer when stored in a freezer. Does anyone here have any comments on this claim? Are the keeping properties of Velvia 50 really that good when frozen? If so, what about Velvia 100?
I'm considering buying a stock of Velvia 50 & maybe 100 to store in a deep freezer as a hedge against discontinuance.

I'd welcome opinions/experience both positive & negative.

cliveh · Oct 17, 2012

dslater said:
Hi all,
So I've just read on another site a claim that Velvia 50 will last for as long as 10 years if not longer when stored in a freezer. Does anyone here have any comments on this claim? Are the keeping properties of Velvia 50 really that good when frozen? If so, what about Velvia 100?
I'm considering buying a stock of Velvia 50 & maybe 100 to store in a deep freezer as a hedge against discontinuance.

I'd welcome opinions/experience both positive & negative.

I would suggest it will keep for that long, if not longer just stored in a fridge.

iulian · Oct 17, 2012

Take everything Ken R...ell says with a grain of salt I haven't seen anthing around here about the loss of Velvia 50 in rolls. And sheets were discontinued a while ago, afaik. So his news is either old or new.
But I did use refrigerated b&w after 15-20 years (from my dad's old stash) and it was ok.

wildbill · Oct 17, 2012

yes. I'm shooting a box with a 1993 exp date right now. Never had an issue with 50 or 100.

Poisson Du Jour · Oct 17, 2012

Very doubtful. In my personal experience I have found that emulsion binds/sticks and eventually weakens over long-term storage (I have had Velvia 50 and 100F in deep freeze since 1997 as an experiment). When loaded, the film commonly jams — at worse, drive torque can rip a bonded emulsion. This is not endemic to just Velvia, but many films, including Ilford Delta 100, 400, T Max 100 and 400, Provia 100 and roll film (because of the inclusion of paper backing there can be absorbtion of moisture into the roll if improper acclimatisation procedures are not followed from deep freeze to ambient room temperature). Realistically 5 to 6 years of storage and periodic removal into ambient temperatures is the best practice.

The remaining Velvia emulsions may be around for a few years yet, but the E6 process required to bring the images to life is diminishing in availability, save for home users. This in my eyes is the major threat, not the availability of E6 films. Once the process goes, demand for E6 film will I imagine drop very sharply and no amount of hording or insurance against "discontinuance" will reverse the problem. Summary: use Velvia now while E6 processing is reasonably easy to obtain and enjoy the results.

okto · Oct 18, 2012

Sounds like you need to invest in some Ziploc bags, Poisson. Keeping ambient air out will solve pretty much all those problems. ^_^

wildbill · Oct 18, 2012

"periodic removal into ambient temperatures is the best practice"
so, you're saying taking my film out of the freezer every once and a while and letting it warm up is a good idea? That makes zero sense to me. Kodak nor fuji has ever said such a thing. Care to elaborate?

wogster · Oct 18, 2012

Poisson Du Jour said:
Very doubtful. In my personal experience I have found that emulsion binds/sticks and eventually weakens over long-term storage (I have had Velvia 50 and 100F in deep freeze since 1997 as an experiment). When loaded, the film commonly jams at worse, drive torque can rip a bonded emulsion. This is not endemic to just Velvia, but many films, including Ilford Delta 100, 400, T Max 100 and 400, Provia 100 and roll film (because of the inclusion of paper backing there can be absorbtion of moisture into the roll if improper acclimatisation procedures are not followed from deep freeze to ambient room temperature). Realistically 5 to 6 years of storage and periodic removal into ambient temperatures is the best practice.

The remaining Velvia emulsions may be around for a few years yet, but the E6 process required to bring the images to life is diminishing in availability, save for home users. This in my eyes is the major threat, not the availability of E6 films. Once the process goes, demand for E6 film will I imagine drop very sharply and no amount of hording or insurance against "discontinuance" will reverse the problem. Summary: use Velvia now while E6 processing is reasonably easy to obtain and enjoy the results.

The issue is something called condensation, warm air holds more moisture then cold air, so if you take something like a roll of film out of a freezer, the air immediately around it will be cooled to the same temperature, so the moisture condenses on the film. Dampness can weaken the adhesive that holds the emulsion to the base, and make the emulsion stick to itself. The way to prevent this is to get one of those vacuum sealing machines, put a roll into a bag, and seal it. This removes all of the air from the bag, and seals the bag to the outside of the roll. Condensation now happens on the outside of the bag, rather then on the film itself. Because there is no air inside, there is no moisture inside, so you can toss it into the deep freeze, it can stay there for decades, without any problems. To use it, you take the bag out of the freezer for 24 hours, to allow it to completely warm to room temperature, before you open it. I suggest you write the expiry date and the freezing date on the outside of the bag, so you know how long it's been frozen, and how long it can remain thawed, before it will start to show the effects of expiration. I also suggest you keep them sealed until ready to use.

wogster · Oct 18, 2012

Poisson Du Jour said:
The remaining Velvia emulsions may be around for a few years yet, but the E6 process required to bring the images to life is diminishing in availability, save for home users. This in my eyes is the major threat, not the availability of E6 films. Once the process goes, demand for E6 film will I imagine drop very sharply and no amount of hording or insurance against "discontinuance" will reverse the problem. Summary: use Velvia now while E6 processing is reasonably easy to obtain and enjoy the results.

The key to making sure E6 is available long term, making sure you have a good stash of the CD-4 colour developing agent, the rest of the process is simply ordinary chemicals you can get from most bulk chemical suppliers. When E6 processing is no longer available, you just have to roll your own. A bottle of CD4, and a 20 year supply of film in the freezer is going to last a lifetime for many people.

Diapositivo · Oct 18, 2012

wogster said:
The key to making sure E6 is available long term, making sure you have a good stash of the CD-4 colour developing agent, the rest of the process is simply ordinary chemicals you can get from most bulk chemical suppliers. When E6 processing is no longer available, you just have to roll your own. A bottle of CD4, and a 20 year supply of film in the freezer is going to last a lifetime for many people.

Wouldn't the problem be the long-term (20 years) conservation of CD4? I would be very glad if I could invest into a 20-years slide stock, I have always been worried about long-term preservation of chemicals.

ME Super · Oct 18, 2012

The C-41 process uses CD4. E-6 and RA-4 processes both use CD3. This is according to Photo Engineer.

wogster · Oct 19, 2012

Diapositivo said:
Wouldn't the problem be the long-term (20 years) conservation of CD4? I would be very glad if I could invest into a 20-years slide stock, I have always been worried about long-term preservation of chemicals.

I've seen posted here, people who have 20+ year old stock and it still works fine. It is a powder, and if you keep it away from air and water it should be fine.....

Diapositivo · Oct 19, 2012

wogster said:
I've seen posted here, people who have 20+ year old stock and it still works fine. It is a powder, and if you keep it away from air and water it should be fine.....

If that applies also to CD3, then I think I will be using slide film for the next 60 - 70 years or in any case for the rest of my life if longer (I'm an optimist).

Andre Noble · Oct 19, 2012

dslater, Just Do It!

Smart film photographers are stockpiling and freezing Velvia 50: I am double Ziplocking the 5 pack boxes of 120 rolls. I am using Nylofume (gas impermeable - antifumigation) bags for others.

I used to just stick the boxes and rolls in the freezer. But After reading this site, I realize that you have to protect against moisture first and foremost.

Believe me, these will be considered Gold in 10 or 15 year's time - most importantly by yourself..

Velvia 50 & 100 storage

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