Velvia 100 Discontinued in the U.S.

pentaxuser · Jul 7, 2021

faberryman said:
Speaking of higher prices, Ektachrome at B&H is $19.99/roll. Wasn't it something like $11.99/roll when it was reintroduced in 2018? The good news is that you order as few as three rolls and get free shipping.

Given the price of Ektachrome, doesn't free shipping rank with Dobermann's good news that the card sharks that had fleeced him of all his money in a gambling game , at least give him a sandwich which he was still eating as he told Bilko of his tale

pentaxuser

faberryman · Jul 7, 2021

b

pentaxuser said:
Given the price of Ektachrome, doesn't free shipping rank with Dobermann's good news that the card sharks that had fleeced him of all his money in a gambling game , at least give him a sandwich which he was still eating as he told Bilko of his tale

I was a little too young for The Phil Silvers Show, but I catch your drift.

mshchem · Jul 7, 2021

We will get by. If there is a market there will be a film to enjoy.

Not that I'm planning any late night road trips to Thunder Bay, does this apply to Canada?

TheGreatGasMaskMan · Jul 7, 2021

mshchem said:
We will get by. If there is a market there will be a film to enjoy.

Not that I'm planning any late night road trips to Thunder Bay, does this apply to Canada?

we forget Ferrania has every intention of reviving their slides... which would potentially be the largest variety

grat · Jul 7, 2021

afriman said:
What amazes me is that you can freely buy as many paracetamol tablets as you like, when even a moderate overdose can severely damage your liver and even be fatal. In contrast, several comparatively innocuous substances are either verboten or severely restricted.

In the USA, the leading cause of liver failure is still acetaminophen (paracetamol) overdose. And doctors nearly have a coronary if you want to take aspirin-- even though it's good for your heart, good for your blood sugar, is an anti-inflammatory, AND a pain reliever-- "But it damages your stomach!". Of course, you can live significantly longer with a hole in your stomach than you can with a hole in your liver....

cmacd123 · Jul 7, 2021

interesting to read (if you can stand reading legalise) the actual document from the EPA.
https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...ation-of-persistent-bioaccumulative-and-toxic
seems that the chemical in question was identified back in 2014, as being persistent, and not good for Marine life. the approach taken was to just ban all use except for identified uses where it is hard to replace. (particularly for Military use)

Fuji's data sheet was REQUIRED by the rule, and the chemical is not to be allowed to escape in the Water in the USA.

it would seem that Velvia 100 is collateral damage. for example computers and TV sets that contain the substance are allowed to be used for their natural life. I will not try and interpret this document as it is written by lawyers for Lawyers, and I am not a lawyer.

cmacd123 · Jul 7, 2021

mshchem said:
Not that I'm planning any late night road trips to Thunder Bay, does this apply to Canada?

often when a rule come sout in the US, their is pressure for Canada to follow along. I am sure that every large manufacturer has someone on contract to read the regulatory publications of many countries.

Alex Benjamin · Jul 7, 2021

mshchem said:
Not that I'm planning any late night road trips to Thunder Bay, does this apply to Canada?

Doubtful. Can't think of any case where Canada looks to the US for guidance regarding environmental regulations.

I'd be more worried about distribution, i.e., whether Fuji will consider worthwhile the cost of distributing in such a small market.

Kino · Jul 7, 2021

Alex Benjamin said:
Doubtful. Can't think of any case where Canada looks to the US for guidance regarding environmental regulations.

I'd be more worried about distribution, i.e., whether Fuji will consider worthwhile the cost of distributing in such a small market.

BUT, if they do still supply Canada, there may appear a lucrative sideline in "Fuji-running" in boxes marked "Maple Leaf Cookies" across the Great Lakes...

Alex Benjamin · Jul 7, 2021

Kino said:
BUT, if they do still supply Canada, there may appear a lucrative sideline in "Fuji-running" in boxes marked "Maple Leaf Cookies" across the Great Lakes...

And there I was wondering if I could actually retire at 65. I think you've just settled that question for me.

mshchem · Jul 8, 2021

grat said:
the USA, the leading cause of liver failure is still acetaminophen (paracetamol) overdose.

This is because Oxycontin is compounded with acetaminophen, same with the 3,000 zillion different cold remedies. I ordered a large bottle of original 325mg tablets, can't find anything other than 500mg

AgX · Jul 8, 2021

faberryman said:
The effective date of the EPA regulation is what ...

I think I already hinted at the fact that explicetely for photographic use the phasing-out period was prolonged.

Nicholas Lindan · Jul 8, 2021

Will this give rise to smuggling the film in from Mexico or Canada? Will the Border Patrol train dogs to sniff out Velvia?

The amount in the film seems ludicrously small. That's the problem with 'zero tolerance' policies, they often create as many problems as they solve.

I imagine Fuji wouldn't find it hard to replace the nasty stuff with something that isn't on EPA's radar - and that the replacement will eventually prove to be even worse.

grat · Jul 8, 2021

mshchem said:
This is because Oxycontin is compounded with acetaminophen, same with the 3,000 zillion different cold remedies. I ordered a large bottle of original 325mg tablets, can't find anything other than 500mg

Not exactly-- first, it's because acetaminophen is toxic, even in small doses. I was arguing with a doctor, and said that it was toxic-- he says "yeah, but you gotta take like 2 to 3 grams a day"-- I pointed out that's "only" two pills every 4 hours. And that's assuming a perfectly healthy liver, and NO alcohol consumption. He said that was abuse, and I pointed out that aspirin is safe when not abused too. That doctor doesn't like me.

Secondly-- Oxycontin/Oxycodone by itself is an opiod. It is mixed with acetaminophen and sold as Percocet, among other brand names. Similarly, hydrocodone by itself is "just" an opiod. Combined with acetaminophen, it's called Vicodin (among others).

The compounds are obviously the most common way the respective opiods are distributed, but Tylenol and relatives account for a large number of deaths each year as well.

grat · Jul 8, 2021

AgX said:
I think I already hinted at the fact that explicetely for photographic use the phasing-out period was prolonged.

But it would appear that this isn't something as simple as finding a different plasticizer for Fuji-- otherwise Fuji could re-tool their production line. While we're bemoaning the loss of a niche product in a massively contracted industry, this is causing enough shockwaves throughout US manufacturing that the EPA took the unusual step of promising not to enforce the change for 180 days (The actual deadline was March 2021, apparently).

I would suspect, given the apparent attributes as an endocrine disruptor *and* a talent for bioaccumulation, that the EU will not be far behind the US in banning PIP (3:1).

Donald Qualls · Jul 8, 2021

Smuggling from Mexico, perhaps. This substance is probably already banned in Europe and Canada, or if not yet, will be soon (though it's also possible those bans had a longer lead time to allow reformulation or reasonable quantity tolerance, like the European one against borax). Best I can suggest is that Fuji will either reformulate Velvia 100 (the substance in question isn't in Velvia 50, says the article I read yesterday), or more likely drop it globally PDQ.

Wallendo · Jul 8, 2021

Since all the major film manufacturers are secretive about their sales numbers, it is hard to predict what Fuji will do. If sales of Velvia 100 are low, or if Fuji feels that Velvia 100 users will switch to Velvia 50 or Provia 100, we may never see Velvia 100 again.

I was never a big Velvia 100 user, but I do wonder what is going to happen when Velvia 100 users who are not active on online fora send their films off to be developed after September. I haven't seen any notices on the websites of online developers yet.

faberryman · Jul 8, 2021

grat said:
Not exactly-- first, it's because acetaminophen is toxic, even in small doses. I was arguing with a doctor, and said that it was toxic-- he says "yeah, but you gotta take like 2 to 3 grams a day"-- I pointed out that's "only" two pills every 4 hours. And that's assuming a perfectly healthy liver, and NO alcohol consumption. He said that was abuse, and I pointed out that aspirin is safe when not abused too. That doctor doesn't like me.

We'll, I guess you showed him who's who. Which website do you go to for your pharmacological information?

grat said:
Secondly-- Oxycontin/Oxycodone by itself is an opiod. It is mixed with acetaminophen and sold as Percocet, among other brand names. Similarly, hydrocodone by itself is "just" an opiod. Combined with acetaminophen, it's called Vicodin (among others).

And your point is?

YoIaMoNwater · Jul 8, 2021

Huh, I got 8 rolls of this in the freezer. I wonder when Europe and UK will start banning it as well?

AgX · Jul 8, 2021

We should realize that this Fuji film was not banned explicitely, but in general products containing this substance. The same time exempting from this ban for instance all uses in the automotive sector.
Had Fuji not reacted themselves, nobody would have known, nor would have bothered.

I think this is enough food for thought...

grat · Jul 8, 2021

faberryman said:
We'll, I guess you showed him who's who. Which website do you go to for your pharmacological information?

Many of them. It's been something of a personal crusade since a favorite uncle died from acetaminophen poisoning. The doctor didn't bother warning him that it was bad for his liver-- and when his liver started failing, the doctor told him it was because he was an alcoholic. Technically true, but he'd quit drinking 40 years earlier.

But if you genuinely want some actual medical studies, start here:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21717529/

or here:

https://americanaddictioncenters.org/over-the-counter-medications/acetaminophen

or this:

https://www.drugs.com/acetaminophen.html#warnings

And your point is?

Around here, I would think a certain amount of pedanticism is to be expected.

B&Wpositive · Jul 12, 2021

This was a shock last week. I never used a whole lot of this film, and it's likely I don't have that many rolls of it to use before the deadline.

Are we certain that this situation will not affect any of Fuji's other products? I did not see safety data sheets available for anything other than Velvia 100 on their site. Looks like they must have posted it after this situation become known. But how about discontinued films, too? The most likely one to question is Velvia 100F. But there are also people with stored Astia, Provia 400X, Sensia, etc.

mshchem · Jul 12, 2021

grat said:
Many of them. It's been something of a personal crusade since a favorite uncle died from acetaminophen poisoning. The doctor didn't bother warning him that it was bad for his liver-- and when his liver started failing, the doctor told him it was because he was an alcoholic. Technically true, but he'd quit drinking 40 years earlier.

But if you genuinely want some actual medical studies, start here:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21717529/

or here:

https://americanaddictioncenters.org/over-the-counter-medications/acetaminophen

or this:

https://www.drugs.com/acetaminophen.html#warnings

Around here, I would think a certain amount of pedanticism is to be expected.

No doubt acetaminophen is a dangerous thing in the hands of the uninformed. Same is true with a lot of OTC drugs. Acetaminophen is sold primarily as the Extra strength version in the US. I bought a bottle of the original 325mg tablets from an online seller. I very rarely need anything stronger. I have zero cold remedies in the house. People destroy their liver combining multiple doses of acetaminophen, ibuprofen and alcohol. A guy I worked with used Ibuprofen like candy, drank a case of beer on football weekends, he had really bad liver numbers, he stopped everything. He's fine now still has a beer now and then, doesn't mix with pills.
Acetaminophen is #1 cause of acute liver failure last I checked. Thus labels, Finally!

cmacd123 · Jul 13, 2021

B&Wpositive said:
I did not see safety data sheets available for anything other than Velvia 100 on their site. Looks like they must have posted it after this situation become known. But how about discontinued films, too? The most likely one to question is Velvia 100F. But there are also people with stored Astia, Provia 400X, Sensia, etc.

if you can get through the EPA document that I posted the link to, you will see that one of the requirements for the manufacturer is to publish a MSDS for any "Article" that contains that chemical. I know I have never before seen an MSDS for film. and it is not 100% clear if that is a ban on developing that film. (you would need to be a lawyer, as their is an exemption for for example recycling and converting as long as no new amount of the chemical is added).

TheGreatGasMaskMan · Jul 13, 2021

Ex post facto laws…
If you had it before it was illegal you’re fine

Velvia 100 Discontinued in the U.S.

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