variance in camera light meters

DREW WILEY · Jan 17, 2014

The idea is to keep one meter always "brand new" - never in use except when testing the others. I did that for quite awhile, but then as the
older meters starting getting rattles with wear n' tear, I got overwhelmingly tempted to put the reserve unit into regular service. They are all
still perfectly fine and matched as far as reading goes. New Pentax digital spotmeters have gotten pretty damn pricey now that they're no longer made. Sooner or later I'll acquire another one, or perhaps a Minolta Spotmeter F (a little less convenient to use, but a bit more compact,
and when I've had em before, were identically calibrated to the Pentax).

cliveh · Jan 17, 2014

Isn't a light meter really a guessometer?

Chan Tran · Jan 18, 2014

cliveh said:
Isn't a light meter really a guessometer?

No! A light meter is a measurement instrument like any instrument. They have tolerances but no guessometer as you know the light level within the tolerances. Now an exposure meter is a guessometer. Because knowing the light level measuring as an average of the scene, a small spot or the intensity of light falling on the subject isn't sufficient to determine exposure. The photographer has to make a decision there.

E. von Hoegh · Jan 18, 2014

cliveh said:
Isn't a light meter really a guessometer?

For some, yes. For those who have taken the trouble to actually learn a wee bit of applied sensitometry, it's a very valuable tool.

Xmas · Jan 18, 2014

some of the CdS meters had filters to colour balance in tungsten cause without they are red and near red oversensitive. In tungsten they will overreact if they did not have a filter

some CdS cells have lost some low light sensitivity

the Mercury oxide batteries are no longer available you need a Wein style cell or a silver cell with Shockety diode most repair people would use a label after fitting a diode. Using an alkaline won't be reliable.

David has not mentioned the state of either cameras repair or indicated what the user manuals say

David could review the manuals, inspect the battery, and try again?

Alan Klein · Jan 18, 2014

Try telling this guessometer thing to a judge when you get ticketed for speeding.

You, "Your honor. The officer should be using three units so we can either average the three speeds or use the two of the three speeds that match. It's only fair"

Judge, "$125. See the bailiff and pay the fine."

wiltw · Jan 18, 2014

Alan Klein said:
Try telling this guessometer thing to a judge when you get ticketed for speeding.

You, "Your honor. The officer should be using three units so we can either average the three speeds or use the two of the three speeds that match. It's only fair"

Judge, "$125. See the bailiff and pay the fine."

The cop's radar is certainly not a guessometer, when properly calibrated.
OTOH, your car's speedometer is absolutely a guessometer...the 6mph 'leeway' that cops allow over the posted speedlimit before pulling you over is merely to give you the benefit of the doubt due to poor calibration of the typical car speedometer. My last car was about 1mph optimistic, my current car is 4-5mph optimistic (indicated 73 mph to be actual 68-69mph). as compared to GPS speed...at indicated 65mph I am holding up traffic.

E. von Hoegh · Jan 21, 2014

Alan Klein said:
Try telling this guessometer thing to a judge when you get ticketed for speeding.

You, "Your honor. The officer should be using three units so we can either average the three speeds or use the two of the three speeds that match. It's only fair"

Judge, "$125. See the bailiff and pay the fine."

I find it much simpler to not collect tickets. Never had a speeding ticket, ever.
As far as lightmeters go, I've been using the same two meters - a Master III and a LunaSix - for well over 20 years. Why, you say? - because on the very (vanishingly) rare occasions I get an incorrect exposure, the problem is invariably in the wetware, not the hardware.

DREW WILEY · Jan 21, 2014

What will guarantee you a speeding ticket in a number of small towns in the sagebrush part of the West is simply the presence of out-of-state plates on your vehicle. This is the low-tech reliable way that has worked for decades. Here in techie land, during the tax drought of recent recessionary years, a number of cities here installed rigged red light cameras, which, via the magic of digital technology, made certain the light was always red in the evidence tape (converted out of state to something "web friendly"); but in this circumstance, the local magistrates have generally sided with the drivers, and in all but one city around here, have outright banned use of these devices. Doesn't make the road any safer either way. The Highway Patrol always seems to stop someone who looks like they have money for a fine.... If someone unlicensed and uninsured is driving down the freeway on three temporary spares and one flat (which I have certainly seen), they
know it's a waste of time to ticket them or confiscate the clunker, cause they'll just abandon it anyway, and buy another one.

benjiboy · Feb 5, 2014

On the subject of "variance of light meters", I just got one of my three Canon F1N bodys back after a C.L.A. before loading a film, and during checking it against the other two bodys with a Kodak Grey Card and a hand held light meter of known accuracy I was surprised to find that the bodys although manufactured about three years apart and me owning and using them for more than twenty years agreed with each other exactly, and the hand held meter, now to me that's impressive.

BrianShaw · Feb 5, 2014

I'm likewise impressed but not too surprised. Although there are many horror stories on the internet I have had quite good luck with accuracy and precision with well-maintained vintage equipment.

benjiboy · Feb 5, 2014

BrianShaw said:
I'm likewise impressed but not too surprised. Although there are many horror stories on the internet I have had quite good luck with accuracy and precision with well-maintained vintage equipment.

Canon experimented when developing the F1N for ten years and on of the things they found was that putting the Silicon Photo Diode meter inside the left hand side of the camera body instead of Nikon's practice of putting it in the prism produced more consistent and accurate results.

BrianShaw · Feb 5, 2014

Perhaps I should thank Canon... the Nikon 1980's era Nikons I used (FE & F3 - still in use, and a couple of Nikkormat FT3's that wore out due to extensive use in underground mines) had the meter in the body and I've always been happy with Nikon metering. I never imagined that Canon may have been the brain-child.

benjiboy · Feb 5, 2014

BrianShaw said:
Perhaps I should thank Canon... the Nikon 1980's era Nikons I used (FE & F3 - still in use, and a couple of Nikkormat FT3's that wore out due to extensive use in underground mines) had the meter in the body and I've always been happy with Nikon metering. I never imagined that Canon may have been the brain-child.

The Nikkormat's meter is in the prism Brian, Canon F1N's didn't come out until 1981, so Nikkormats and Nikon F2's and F3's are earlier designs so can't have been the brain child, I just think that Nikon had a different philosophy with their pro F series, in that if the meter failed you could have a backup one, or use a handheld one.

benjiboy · Feb 5, 2014

BrianShaw said:
I'm likewise impressed but not too surprised. Although there are many horror stories on the internet I have had quite good luck with accuracy and precision with well-maintained vintage equipment.

I bought all my gear from camera stores where I could check the equipment before parting with my cash, and have a warrenty, I'm sure there are many bargains on the internet, but I've spent too much time in the past around used equipment to be willing to take the risk.
The New F1 is as modern as I want to go really, I do have a Canon T90 that I don't use much because I prefer to use the F1's unless I need TTL flash and 1/250sec flash sync speed.

RalphLambrecht · Feb 5, 2014

momus said:
I wouldn't think the Canon is optimized for B&W from my experience (that's all I shoot). I do not like/trust the Canon metering because I had exposures all over the place on every AE-1, A1, AE1P camera I ever owned, and I tested the shutter speeds on all the cameras before shooting them. I finally gave up and bought an FTb and it's been spot on w/ the exposures. I think the Canon system is good for color, but not necessarily B&W film. Of course these are old cameras and who knows how they behaved back when they were new. For what it's worth, every Nikon or Nikkormat I've owned didn't have any exposure issues. I trust the Nikon meters, not so the Canons.

as a big fan of Nikon's matrix metering system,I agree entirely.Also,my Gossen's are all within 1/3 stop of each other;all calibrated with(or compared to)'sunny 16',std Florida sunat noon.

variance in camera light meters

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