Vanbar and raw chemistry - No Longer

Ross Chambers · Apr 8, 2010

Well this is the text of the e-mail I posted to Vanbar yesterday:

Dear Mr. Baranow,

May I add myself to the list of those who believed that you were no longer supplying raw chemistry.

My basis for this understanding was the response from the Camperdown branch when I went in to order some sodium thiosulphate: they said that there were to be no more raw chemicals available, Mario had left and no-one else was willing to package these materials.

May I suggest that you make the position clear asap, as many will be sourcing from other suppliers as I have needed to.

There is a thread, started by me I'm afraid but based on the Vanbar Camperdown response, on the APUG internet forum, which could be a opportune place to clarify the situation.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Many thanks for the faith that you have shown in traditional photographic technology, I guess that we become ever more niche.

Ross Chambers
Blue Mountains
New South Wales
maelduin@ozemail.com.au

=============

I'm buggered if I know what's going on. no reply as yet, I wish I knew. If this is indeed a niche market (chemistry) of an even more niche market (analogue photography) and is not one to be prudently pursued in commercial terms by our friends (no sarcasm intended, I've always found them to be valuable allies) at Vanbar I can understand.

I'd just like to know so as to figure out the next best approach, and to not be guilty of spreading rumours.

Regards - Ross

Ross Chambers · Apr 15, 2010

Andrew K said:
I just received an email from Peter Baranow - who is the boss at Vanbar - they ARE still suppling raw chemicals:

"You know youre the third or fourth person who has told me we are getting out of raw chem. Unfortunately I was never told about this, and considering I am the person who makes these decisions you would have thought that I would know.

The only chem. That we are not selling any more are those that arte physically not available . Things like Glycin and Phenidone where we cannot source these any more.
But otherwise its all business as usual. In fact I just yesterday authorizes a large order for several lots of bulk chem."

OK I tried once more at Vanbar Camperdown (Mr Baranow doesn't answer MY e-mails) for Sodium Thiosulphate, a common and safe chemical, but hard to find at prices apart from those for a much higher grade than required:

"It's on the newly designed website -- admittedly with a picture of a jar of another chemical altogether)"

"It's out of stock"

"Can I back-order it?"

"Hmm, hmm. Let's put an order in and see what happens. No-one wants to package chemicals in Melbourne"

Make me the fifth, sixth and so on and on person to say that raw chemicals are extremely difficult to extract from Vanbar.

My fallback Bacto supplied. The price--including $33 P&P--meant that I paid just under $100 per kilo.

As ever I would appreciate any absolutely specific suggestions and contact details from those who claim access to dear old plain "Hypo" at sane prices.

If only small quantities of this chemical were needed, and overseas freight costs were not a factor, I'd gladly abandon Vanbar.

In frustration - Ross

w9cae · Apr 15, 2010

Maybe I should head down to Vanbar & ask them for a job packaging photographic chemicals ?

SMBooth · Apr 15, 2010

w9cae said:
Maybe I should head down to Vanbar & ask them for a job packaging photographic chemicals ?

Scott, I think you've had enough chemicals....

Ross Chambers · Apr 16, 2010

w9cae said:
Maybe I should head down to Vanbar & ask them for a job packaging photographic chemicals ?

I must admit that the guy who did the chemical mixing for the motion picture lab of the New Zealand National Film Unit when I worked there in film editing did end up in Porirua (a polite local verbal evasion for the Wellington psychiatric hospital)

He always blamed the chemicals for his bipolar disorder; which climaxed with his running down one of the main streets of Wellington (Courtenay Place, for those who know Wellie) with a toy gun, shouting "It's only a movie!"

A piece of Kiwi irony found him, after his discharge from Porirua, gardening in the grounds of the Governor General's official residence at the Basin Reserve. Dunno what happened to the gun.

Be warned, those exotic chemicals can do strange things to folk, especially when you can't find the damn things.

Regards - Ross

Athiril · May 1, 2010

You can make thiosulphate from sulphur and sodium sulphite, both are which are cheap, sulphur is ~$7/2.5kg from K-Mart last I checked and bought some.

Sulphite is cheap from any pool supply shop, you can probably use substitute metabisulphite which you can get at the home brew section in any supermarket - or make sulphite from metabisulphite and use that.

Thiosulphate is also sold in pool chemical shops cheaply, and there are online pool shops in Aus you can order it from as well if you dont want to leave your house.

In any case Vanbar lists a few new chemicals they didn't have before - potassium bromide (thank god, previously I had someone mail me some from UK from silverprint..)

Vanbar also sell Kodak E-6 Fixer (minilab) stuff for about $15, which is 3 3.3L bottles iirc, which makes 20L E-6 fixer, if you just need it for fixer.

Ross Chambers · May 2, 2010

Thanks, as a loyal 19th century devotee I have only a dial up connection and youtube doesn't work too well.

I have an order in with Vanbar for 5 kg. The Sydney branch accepted it, although it was out of stock on their internal catalogue. I can get by for a few months with my $80/kg high class supply.

I'd be interested to hear from all those 25kg for a buck respondents?

Athiril · May 2, 2010

$80/kg?! Jesus.

Go to a pool shop and ask for chlorine remover, look on the bottle for the ingredient, you should find 98%+ sodium thiosulphate from one of the shops.

Or get it online from a pool shop, the purity is more than enough for any photographic purpose.

Do you have a time machine? Didn't think dialup existed anymore..

Dead Link Removed has it for $125/5kg

http://www.directpoolsupplies.com.au/prod2165.htm $22/1kg

http://www.omegachem.com.au/pool.php - 10kg, 25kg bulk packs

LachieC · Feb 16, 2011

Hello APUG'ers.

Lachiec here, from Vanbar. I see this thread is quite old and there has been a response from Mr. Baranow at some point.
I would just like to further clarify that we are indeed still shipping RAW chemistry. All the RAW chem is on our online catalog.

I will advise that we do not mix / decant chem every day; this can mean a few days wait before orders are processed and shipped.

I have personally checked the internal stock system and have removed any products that we can no longer get. This may take a day to reflect online; but I only removed about 3 items. Toner kits mainly.

This brings me to my next point.
The confusion about this may stem from when we discontinued the "Photochem" branded chemistry KITS, things like Toners and Reversal kits etc. We no longer make this product. (Photochem == Vanbar).

In closing :

Yes we still sell RAW chemistry; order it and it will show up.

-LachieC
lachiec -at- vanbar.com.au

Mick Fagan · Feb 16, 2011

Lachiec, welcome to APUG.

I tried to order Boric Acid last year but was informed both at North Melbourne and Carlton that you had stopped stocking raw chemicals, and once out of stock of any item, it wouldn't be re-stocked.

There are a few other chemicals I wish to procure, but basically I stopped using Vanbar and started purchasing from overseas.

Perhaps you should inform your staff of this matter, maybe even put a counter sign, or even a notice on the Carlton notice board.

I was in Carlton last Saturday morning, I would have ordered a nice raw chemical order for pick up in a week or two, as I used to do, if I had known you were still selling raw chemicals.

Mick.

LachieC · Feb 16, 2011

Fascinating Mick, thanks for letting me know.

We're up here in the offices / admin area at Carlton. And none of us have any idea where this information has come from.

I'll whip up another memo about it!

-Lachie

Kevin Caulfield · Feb 16, 2011

Hi Lachie, welcome to APUG. I think I know you. We were discussing the Kings Of Leon at the North Melbourne store.

LachieC · Feb 16, 2011

Yes Kevin! That was me!

I think I'll listen to Youth and Young Manhood a little later today

munz6869 · Feb 16, 2011

Welcome to APUG Lachie! I am sure I know you also - were you the fellow who sold me that fancy lowepro bag for my Fuji 6x8 rangefinder?

Marc!

Michael W · Feb 16, 2011

Hi Lachie, can you give an update on supplies of Rodinal / Adonal?

LachieC · Feb 16, 2011

Yes Marc, it probably was me! I'm the loud one with reddish/brownish hair and various stages of facial growth.
And I always wind out selling nice things to nice people with nice cameras? Anywho.

Rodinal/Adonal is the bane of my existence but I know there is some on the water but its all pre-sold. Will be another 4 weeks or so for the next batch.

Stay tuned.

P.S I just made a sign for the Carlton store about the raw chem. Thanks for the idea Mick.

wotalegend · Feb 16, 2011

Michael W said:
Hi Lachie, can you give an update on supplies of Rodinal / Adonal?

I'll second that. (posted before I saw Lachie's response)

How can it be "pre-sold"? How do we get on to the pre-sold list instead of being told to come back in two months? P.S: If quantity is the qualifier, then count me out - I only buy one bottle at a time.

LachieC · Feb 16, 2011

It is a long story, to shorten it:

We were getting Rodinal from Supplier A, selling / purchasing no problems. We began to have supply problems with Supplier A which they did not effectively communicate to us. We were of the understanding things were fine. This whole thing carried on for months.

Supplier A has not been in contact with us for some time.

I investigated an alternative supplier and found Supplier B. This supplier is very good and remain in close contact. They were short stocked so we were unable to have our entire order filled. As such we will be shipping the Rodinal out by order date (earliest order gets first delivery).

When our second batch arrives from Supplier B we should be able to complete all existing back orders and have units left for shelf stock.

The staff at all locations have been cautious in taking orders for this product as firm ETA's were unavailable and stock is currently limited. This long lead time and uncertainty leads to unhappy customers. This will change over the next few months.

-LachieC

wotalegend · Feb 16, 2011

Thanks for the quick and clear explanation, Lachie.

It looks like it's still going to be a bit of a lottery for small users like me to come in before the shelf stock is also gone. Now the next question might look a bit simplistic: if there is a pent-up demand for the product, why can't production and supply be ramped up at the source and through the supply chain?

On the positive side, it is encouraging that there appears to be more demand than supply, in the sense that it should mean that the product is not going to be discontinued at any time soon.

wotalegend · Feb 16, 2011

I may have found the answer to my "lottery" statement above. I am now following "vanbarimaging" on Twitter, so hopefully they will tweet the arrival of Rodinal/Adonal stocks.

LachieC · Feb 16, 2011

Yes Mr. Legend. I'm our twitter man; and rest assured Adonal / Rodinal will be mentioned. And production has been ramped up at the manufacturer.

-LachieC

wotalegend · Feb 16, 2011

LachieC said:
Yes Mr. Legend. I'm our twitter man; and rest assured Adonal / Rodinal will be mentioned. And production has been ramped up at the manufacturer.

-LachieC

Winner x 2!

Kevin Caulfield · Feb 17, 2011

LachieC said:
Yes Kevin! That was me!

I think I'll listen to Youth and Young Manhood a little later today

Yes, either of the first two albums and you won't go too far wrong.

It's an even smaller world than we realise. My cousin runs a lunch place near your Carlton store, and she tells me she knows a lot of the Vanbar people, and you are one of her best customers.

LachieC · Feb 17, 2011

That's not Tiger Lilly is it? You're cousin is Marie?

The Schnitzel Pide's they do there should be illegal, god I love them.

Ross Chambers · Feb 17, 2011

Schnitzel pides?? Austrian Turks? Only in Melbourne? They sound awful, and not just because I'm a vego.

I must have another try at Camperdown for Rodinal, Danny just said that it was long gone a few weeks ago.

Vanbar and raw chemistry - No Longer

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