Vanbar and raw chemistry - No Longer

Ross Chambers · Feb 28, 2010

I don't know about selenium toner, I have a little KRST on the shelf.

Vanbar used to make their own brand.

More inconveniently for me is that they have killed their raw chemistry, because Mario left and no-one else wants to pack and/or mix chemicals.

It's not so bad for those expensive little bottles of stuff you use in small quantities, you can get them from the US without expensive postage, but a PITA for such bulk requirements as Sodium Thiosulphate.

Any tips re Oz sources welcome (I do have a potential Sydney source for hypo.)

Regards - Ross

Athiril · Feb 28, 2010

I still get raw chemical components from Vanbar.

I also get minilab chemicals.

On tuesday I'm getting a whole massive amount of Flexicolor and Ektacolor Kodak Chemicals too for shipping cost since it was going to be tossed and offered to me.

AFAIK I tried to get thiosulphate from Vanbar and they dont sell it any longer but have it listed still, I'll inqurie again, they have useful stuff like potassium hydroxide for making potassium salts, carbonate, benzotriazole, hydroquinone, thiocyanate.

They also sell Kodak E6 minilab 20L kits of Fixer, for like $15, if you want fixer look or that, or get universal fixer.

Hypo is just metabisulphite or sulphite in water (usually the latter, sometimes both).

You can get Sodium and Potassium Metabisulphite really cheap at Vanbar, and many super markets stock sodium metabisulphite (sold as steriliser) in the home brew section, sodium sulphite I found at a pool shop that sells pool chemicals. If I can find that in a pool shop in Byron along with other useful chems, I'm sure you can down there in the city

If you cant get thiosulphate, and want it for something other than a fixer (so cheap thiosulphate fixer is no go) then you can heat sodium sulphite + sulphur in water to make it. It's probably as cheap as buying it, you can get Sulphur on ebay for about $20/kg, and $15/1.5kg for sulphite from a pool shop.

It should be rather a simple process actually, I'm pretty sure its just 1 mol + 1 mol = 1 mol of sodium thiosulphate.

32.065g of sulfur + 126.043g of sodium sulphite dissolved in water and heated should equal 158.108g of sodium thiosulphate, unless I'm missing something.

Sulfur wont dissolve, but should react in the heated presence of sulphite dissolved to form thiosulphate afaik.

timk · Feb 28, 2010

I've also heard that this is true. They are selling what they have in stock but won't be ordering anything new. So if you're lucky they might still have certain chemicals.

largeformat pat · Feb 28, 2010

I buy 25kg bags of Sodium Thiosuphate from a chemical supplier, They do have in stock, however. A week later and I then pick up. I also buy from photo form in the states as well as Bostick and Sullivan. Non hazardous they will post here no problems. I currently sourcing silver nitrate.
Pat

largeformat pat · Mar 12, 2010

I just got some Sodium Metaborate from the states. No problems

Ross Chambers · Mar 12, 2010

Yes I've obtained some kits from Photographers' Formulary to try particular processes (pyrocat, New Cyanotype etc.).

I used--when Vanbar still supplied--to then source the chemicals from them at a cheaper price.

The large amounts of sodium thiosulphate are another matter, I'm sure the freight would be outrageous for even 5 kg.

At present I'm trying to balance two hard to find ingredients for salt printing: Strathmore Series 500 paper (the best that I have found for this process) and the aforesaid sodium thiosulphate. I'm not sure whether I'll end up a pile of one or the other but not the complete kit required.

For Sydney folk there's a company in Cromer that claims on its website to have sodium thiosulphate.

Regards - Ross

Craig Griffiths · Mar 12, 2010

silver nitrate supply

"I currently sourcing silver nitrate... "

Pat, I have a source in Townsville of all places that is happy to ship Silver Nitrate. Let me know if you need the details.

largeformat pat · Mar 12, 2010

Craig please PM me the details. Ross. Sodium Thio can be accessed. I have a supplier who sells in 25 kg bags. enough for 33 litres about $200 PM I will get you details.
Pat

largeformat pat · Mar 12, 2010

I stuffed up, 25 kg is enough for 100 litres. Had 750 grams in my head for some reason.
Pat

sharperstill · Mar 13, 2010

I just bought out Vanbar's last stock of citric acid at $11 per kilo after being quoted $26/500gm from another supplier. It's a shame they're not going to be retaining some powdered chem.

Jon

Stephen Frizza · Mar 13, 2010

Why not but the chemicals from the places like Bacto? in australia? http://www.bacto.com.au/main.htm

Without the repackaging and branding I always found it cheaper than vanbar anyway.

timk · Mar 13, 2010

Consolidated chemicals can supply in 25kg quantities. However it's a bit much for most of the chemicals, if anyone is interested in group purchasing some common chemicals then I'd be happy to arrange an order and split the quantities.

http://www.consolidatedchem.com/index.html

jford · Mar 14, 2010

You can get silver nitrate from Trevor Foon in Wonthaggi. Look up Foon Photographics there.

Ross Chambers · Mar 15, 2010

Stephen Frizza said:
Why not but the chemicals from the places like Bacto? in australia? http://www.bacto.com.au/main.htm

Without the repackaging and branding I always found it cheaper than vanbar anyway.

Thanks for the tip Stephen. Their online catalogue looks encouraging. I see that they are in the wilds of the south west (I don't have a car)--should be an interesting trip. Freight to the Blue Mountains is often exorbitant.

Regards - Ross

largeformat pat · Mar 16, 2010

Ross,
Catch a train

Ross Chambers · Mar 30, 2010

Stephen Frizza said:
Why not but the chemicals from the places like Bacto? in australia? http://www.bacto.com.au/main.htm

Without the repackaging and branding I always found it cheaper than vanbar anyway.

So I ordered from Bacto, after taking a very deep breath at the price:

2kg Sodium Thiosulphate about $144 plus freight.

Vanbar's price for the same was about $32.

Any further ideas folks? Not forgetting that this chemical is used in fairly large proportions, hence freight is a factor?

Regards - Ross

largeformat pat · Mar 30, 2010

Ross,
Check the grade of chemicals quoted, It may lab grade or better. I'm trying to think of the people in Newcastle. They quoted me $180.00 for 25 Kg's.
Pat

Stephen Frizza · Mar 30, 2010

Ross Chambers said:
So I ordered from Bacto, after taking a very deep breath at the price:

2kg Sodium Thiosulphate about $144 plus freight.

Vanbar's price for the same was about $32.

Any further ideas folks? Not forgetting that this chemical is used in fairly large proportions, hence freight is a factor?

Regards - Ross

eeekkk that sounds not right ross want me to send you some?

Poisson Du Jour · Mar 30, 2010

What's that stuff used for?
Bomb making??

Photo Engineer · Mar 30, 2010

Athiril said:
Hypo is just metabisulphite or sulphite in water (usually the latter, sometimes both).

If you cant get thiosulphate, and want it for something other than a fixer (so cheap thiosulphate fixer is no go) then you can heat sodium sulphite + sulphur in water to make it.

Wrong!

Sorry. Don't try to fix film or paper with the former!

The latter synthesis is correct, but rather messy. You can get colloidal sulfur.

PE

Ross Chambers · Mar 31, 2010

largeformat pat said:
Ross,
Check the grade of chemicals quoted, It may lab grade or better. I'm trying to think of the people in Newcastle. They quoted me $180.00 for 25 Kg's.
Pat

Technical grade. Analytical grade was more expensive. I don't expect the salesperson to be a PhD in chemistry, but telling her that it was for photographic use led to this grade.

Bacto will ask what your intended use is, too. Sodium thiosulphate being relatively benign meant that my intended use was satisfactory for the sale to proceed. She said that there were rigorous conditions for some of the more volatile products.

I can't see the connection between price and nefarious uses, fertiliser--as used by American terrorists--is pretty cheap.

Regards - Ross

timk · Apr 1, 2010

technical grade should be the cheapest, followed by GPR (general purpose) and analy (analytical grade)

I tried emailing bacto with a list of things I was looking at but never had a reply.

Ross Chambers · Apr 2, 2010

timk said:
I tried emailing bacto with a list of things I was looking at but never had a reply.

They were pretty good by phone, I didn't try e-mail.

Regards - Ross

Andrew K · Apr 7, 2010

I just received an email from Peter Baranow - who is the boss at Vanbar - they ARE still suppling raw chemicals:

"You know youre the third or fourth person who has told me we are getting out of raw chem. Unfortunately I was never told about this, and considering I am the person who makes these decisions you would have thought that I would know.

The only chem. That we are not selling any more are those that arte physically not available . Things like Glycin and Phenidone where we cannot source these any more.
But otherwise its all business as usual. In fact I just yesterday authorizes a large order for several lots of bulk chem."

Mick Fagan · Apr 7, 2010

Interesting.

I do hope this is the case as there are some chemicals I have been purchasing from Vanbar in reasonably small amounts, I've tried to figure out how I could go through 25kg bags of certain stuff.

One staff member at Nth. Melbourne poked his head outside to watch as I loaded a 25kg bag and a box of other chemicals onto the back of my motorcycle and in my panniers.

I'll have to re-consider my strategy.

Mick.

Vanbar and raw chemistry - No Longer

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