Value of expired films

Kirks518 · Aug 28, 2014

Many people wonder how much they should pay for used equipment (lenses, bodies, etc), but what about expired film? How much of a percentage off of retail do you feel is realistic?

Of course there will be variables that would come into play (store, how old, etc), but let's just go with expired more then 10 years, and properly stored. If you have a rule of thumb you use that takes into account some of the variables, that would be great.

pdeeh · Aug 28, 2014

you should put them on ebay.co.uk Kirk, because judging by the prices people are asking for expired film there, you just ADD a hefty percentage to retail ...

BrianShaw · Aug 28, 2014

There is no rule of thumb. Some expired film sells for much more than the original price; some sells for less. It really comes down to how much the buyer wants that film and the motivation of the seller. Some sellers want to make a profit; others just want to pass it along. I once had a practice of passing it along for free... until one guy took it using the guise of being a poor student/artist and then sold it on this forum for $$$. I don't have any hard feelings toward him, but that experience certainly modified my once-generous habits.

If you are a seller rather than a buyer... suggest opening bid set at 99p and see where the auction goes. Could go much higher than you think. Or it could...

Ken Nadvornick · Aug 28, 2014

While I realize that everyone's individual circumstances differ, I personally wouldn't use expired film, as I would not want to take the risk. It might be OK. Or it might not. And if one can't pre-test it, one just accepts that risk.

For me fresh film costs are only a small slice of the total costs in both time and effort to make a photograph. Of course, YMMV.

But if I was to purchase expired, properly stored for 10 years, I personally wouldn't pay much more than maybe 10% of the cost for the fresh equivalent. And then it would only be used for camera or darkroom testing. Not for important pictures. At least without pre-testing. Again, YMMV.

Ken

removed account4 · Aug 28, 2014

hi kirk

ebay allows free listings
just put it up at whatever price you want and let
the buyers decide what they want to pay for it.
i shoot expired films these days 8+ years and have no issue with it ...
and it it is kind of obvious that if someone is spending $$ on
old expired film they know the risks involved ... just the same
you might want to put a disclaimer on your sell page saying
"this isn't fresh film by buying this film you know it is expired
and might not behave like fresh film yadda yadda yadda "
if i wasn't getting out of the premanufactured film market
i would be sending you a PM asking what you have
good luck with your sale!
john

AgX · Aug 28, 2014

I say there ihardly is a rule of thumb. It depends on many variables.
Amongst them the place where that deal is to take place.

I for instance rarely take e-bay prices as a guide. They typicall are far off from where I buy. (The same time e-bay has its benefits.)

Kirks518 · Aug 28, 2014

Just to clarify - I am not looking to sell any film. I was perusing ebay, and noticed (as mentioned here) that some of the expired film was being sold for close to the price of new. An example is this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Feet-of-Ilford-PAN-F-50-35mm-Film-Unopened-and-FROZEN-/271533405046 the guy wants $0.95 less then what B&H sells the same film for new, and this guys' film is 13 years expired. It got me wondering what a realistic pricing discount would be for expired film.

snapguy · Aug 28, 2014

fantasies

There are a lot of fantasies on EBag. A person can say that olde film has been kept in perfect conditions but how are you going to prove it ahead of buying it? Selling expired film to me is like the Nigerian lady who is willing to share a few million bucks with you but you must pay the tax or something up front. Lots of luck.

BrianShaw · Aug 28, 2014

The only reasons for using expired film are if you are experimenting and don't mind taking the risk, if you got the film inexpensive/free and don't mind taking the risk, or if you like using archaic emulsions and don't mind taking the risk. All options include risk and if one is willing to accept that risk, then hopefully the film was inexpensive/free.

mgb74 · Aug 28, 2014

Kirks518 said:
Just to clarify - I am not looking to sell any film. I was perusing ebay, and noticed (as mentioned here) that some of the expired film was being sold for close to the price of new. An example is this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Feet-of-Ilford-PAN-F-50-35mm-Film-Unopened-and-FROZEN-/271533405046 the guy wants $0.95 less then what B&H sells the same film for new, and this guys' film is 13 years expired. It got me wondering what a realistic pricing discount would be for expired film.

Well, in that particular case, the seller is accepting offers. And he's had many offers but apparently has rejected all.

Personally, I expect recently expired film of a currently available emulsion to sell for about 2/3 of new (mail order price). 9 year old film, however, might be a different story. I wouldn't hesitate to buy 9 year old film that was properly stored from a trusted source. But from someone on ebay?

FWIW, I sold a 100 ft roll on Pan F, dated 2006, for $35 in 2012. I thought that was fair at the time. It too had been frozen since bought fresh.

MattKing · Aug 28, 2014

If you can buy it new, don't buy expired film for anything but experimentation.

One small exception: if you are offered recently expired film from a retailer you have reason to trust, who also offers full price, unexpired film, and the film is of low to moderate ISO, and is black and white, then it is worth considering.

AgX · Aug 28, 2014

Some time ago I bought a lot of expired type 126 films (cassettes inside original aluminium wrapper, inside original cardboard boxes).

Only back home I realized that ALL wrappers were cut open at one end and ALL cassettes spooled to the end.

Well, I can imagine someone exposing a cassette and then putting it back into the wrapper and box before sending it to the finisher. But not with two dozen cassettes and none sending.
I guess someone deliberately spoiled the films.

They were part of a larger lot, I did not examine them into detail and I made a bargain on other things in that lot anyway.
I just want to indicate that one even must take into account something weird.

In general: as long as there is no unharmed seal, consider any film and paper as possibly/likely exposed. Keep that risk in mind when establishing the price you would pay.

pbromaghin · Aug 28, 2014

They are worth only and whatever you will pay for them. I have had mostly good experience with expired film. I got 100ft each of expired tmax 100 and tri-x a year or so ago and they turned out to be perfect. The 40 rolls of Portra VC 160 and 400 were not, but they are great for messing about with an old folder. This experience was enough to make me risk buying 1200ft of expired, re-canned cine film that mweintraub offered here on apug. That purchase came out to $.01 per shot, so what am I out even if it is bad?

Alan W · Aug 28, 2014

Expired APX 25 is worth a lot.Expired Tech Pan is also worth a lot,properly stored of course.Expired Tmax or Tri-x,is usually not worth more than the price of new film.I'm a slow shooter and most of the film I use is expired-I still have a large stash of Velvia 50 220,for example,expired in 1998-It's as good as the day I put it in the freezer-storage is the key.

removed account4 · Aug 28, 2014

i have stuff on a shelf that expired 20+ years ago,
it is as good as new ( tri x ) and other stuff that is 13 years old
and it shows very little if any fog ( tmx, tmy ) ... i have some color ( expired maybe 6-8 years ago
and older ), but i don't bother having it processed as color i just b/w process it and it is not bad either ( no shift ) ...

none of it is cold stored, just shelf stored in a room that is never below 60 and never above 68i-70sh

i have never had trouble buying or using expired film ... except for cn400 ... didn't even record an image ...

ic-racer · Aug 28, 2014

Kirks518 said:
but what about expired film?

Sometimes I'll take the film and throw it away for someone, but usually I'll pass when it is offered to me. I know a few places where I can get still get fresh film.

Bill Burk · Aug 28, 2014

I feel that slow discontinued films are worth a modest premium over similar quantity and format of fresh film and feel the same about film in a discontinued format that I'm interested in shooting, such as 110 cartridges of Verichrome-Pan. If I loved Plus-X I'd buy recent vintage at a slight premium as well, but I was always a Panatomic-X guy.

I feel it's worth it because I have found the quality of recent photographs on these films to be "indistinguishable" from vintage fresh negatives on the same films when the films were fresh.

But I feel differently about film which is likely to be fogged severely or have significant color shift. To me, that belongs in the hands of experimenters who want that look. I'd expect that film to come at a fraction the cost of new (or given free).

I must add... I prefer to shoot fresh film.

cmacd123 · Aug 28, 2014

In my mind it depends on the Speed, and the relative age. a year or two out of date with a discount, perhaps up to 5 years for Slow film. Perhaps a slight premium for a well loved film that is no longer available. Every now an then a wild price for a genuine experiment. I recently got a BRICK of both Agfa ISU and ILlford FP4 in 127 from an e-bay seller in france for about 10% above what it would sell if it was still available. This is equivalent to the film I shot as a youth, including a 1973 Expiry date. The seller said it had been sitting in a basement in France since new.

The ISU was Underexposed in an Old Brownie, so the next trial will be at speeds from 10-100 ASA. The ilford still had Full speed it seemed, but had places where the emulsion was missing, probably stuck to the paper.

even though the Ilford was still sealed in the foil pouches, there is rust on the spools. (perhaps the seal was not perfect.)

Would I run out for more? NO.

Jeff Kubach · Aug 29, 2014

I will shoot recently expired B&W film.

Jeff

Value of expired films

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency