V30 or Colenta Roller transport (2021 model)? Should I get one for my small lab?

[MingMingPhoto]

I'm in the market for gettign an ew film procesor. Right now everythign is done with a filmomat. It does well, but I'd like to be able to get a little bit less ahnds on with color film processing so we can spend our time onn scanning and darkroom printing and helping people with workshops and what not.

I know v30 is very popular, but also that it is very old.

Colenta as a more recent roller transport machine out and I'm not finding much info about it online. does anyone have experince with one?

Does anyone have experince with any more automated film processors and has some recomendaitons?

 

[Lachlan Young]

A reconditioned Jobo Autolab of one of the 4 main varieties (though I'd suggest nothing smaller than the ATL1000 or 1500) may be a smarter plan for your needs - unless you are doing quite a lot (several dozen rolls+++ a week) of throughput of one process only. The Colenta can handle sheet formats as well as roll - and is overall a more capable machine than the minilab grade V30.

The Filmomat is a well-heeled hobbyist's toy compared to any of these machines. What is the skill level of the potential users of the machine & the knowledge/ ability baseline of the person(s) who will be maintaining it?

 

[MingMingPhoto]

Yeah we do a couple thousand a month so I defiantly need something to automate a bit and make it less hands on for the c41. Can you tell me more about the two machines please? Pro and con? Efficiency and chemical life and consistency and maintainabl

 

[foc]

Do you have a breakdown of the number of each format that you process each month?

The Noritsu V30 is a leader card type film processor. This is where the film is spliced onto a plastic leader card and that card engages with drive belt teeth and the film is pulled through the chemical tanks, guided by rollers that only touch the edge of the film.

The Colenta is a roller drive processor which means that the rollers are touching the film/sheet all through the process. They are very reliable but the rollers will need careful maintenance so as not to scratch a film/sheet.

You could also keep an eye out for a Fuji FP563 film processor. It would offer similar to the V30.

 

[MingMingPhoto]

Do you have a breakdown of the number of each format that you process each month?

The Noritsu V30 is a leader card type film processor. This is where the film is spliced onto a plastic leader card and that card engages with drive belt teeth and the film is pulled through the chemical tanks, guided by rollers that only touch the edge of the film.

The Colenta is a roller drive processor which means that the rollers are touching the film/sheet all through the process. They are very reliable but the rollers will need careful maintenance so as not to scratch a film/sheet.

You could also keep an eye out for a Fuji FP563 film processor. It would offer similar to the V30.

Thanks. I have a filmomat to handle all the uncommon types. We mostly get c41 35 so I’m looking for a machine that can do That and nerve 120.

What is the roller system like? What do people say about colenta? Harder to manage?

 

[foc]

Personally, I would go for the V30, a refurbished one. Some of these machines can be 20+ years old, so make sure the electronics/circuit boards have been replaced and the tank racks, drive belts, replenishment pumps, cross-over racks are all working as near as like new. If not then it can be a whole lot of trouble and pain.

 

[Lachlan Young]

we do a couple thousand a month so I defiantly need something to automate a bit and make it less hands on for the c41

Just so that I'm reading this right, you're running a few thousand rolls a month, 4 rolls at a time through a Filmomat?

If that's the case, you'll be better off investing in a dip/dunk machine like a Colenta Roboline.

 

[koraks]

Just so that I'm reading this right, you're running a few thousand rolls a month, 4 rolls at a time through a Filmomat?

Someone's been clocking decent work weeks if this is true. This easily amounts to 30 hours a week just developing film, not counting any other aspect of the process, let alone customer contact etc.

 

[MingMingPhoto]

Just so that I'm reading this right, you're running a few thousand rolls a month, 4 rolls at a time through a Filmomat?

If that's the case, you'll be better off investing in a dip/dunk machine like a Colenta Roboline.

forgive me, maybe like 700-1000 rolls a month. It felt like thousands but I just checked

but word I get you, but I don't have to space for a dip adn dunk or the volume I'm rpetty sure or the know how. I also need to buy a densitometer soon for the v30 sicne I can't use the devloper one shot.

do you have advice for the question I asked though?

 

[MingMingPhoto]

Someone's been clocking decent work weeks if this is true. This easily amounts to 30 hours a week just developing film, not counting any other aspect of the process, let alone customer contact etc.

lmao, hundreds not thousands my bad.

but yeah 6 days a week. This is why it's time to get a new machine so I can be more hands off and can invest my time in the darkroom and community building

 

[koraks]

Yes, that's sound reasoning. I'm sorry I'm of no help; I don't have any experience with these kinds of volumes, other than witnessing all shops about 20 years ago would run minilabs for these volumes and not dip&dunk. I'd be somewhat hesitant about these machines given their age and the maintenance and repair nightmares they at some point are guaranteed to present you with. It's a scenario you'll have to consider. Who are you going to fall back on once the machine throws the inevitable tantrum?

 

[MingMingPhoto]

Yes, that's sound reasoning. I'm sorry I'm of no help; I don't have any experience with these kinds of volumes, other than witnessing all shops about 20 years ago would run minilabs for these volumes and not dip&dunk. I'd be somewhat hesitant about these machines given their age and the maintenance and repair nightmares they at some point are guaranteed to present you with. It's a scenario you'll have to consider. Who are you going to fall back on once the machine throws the inevitable tantrum?

thanks, and no worries

I'll fall back on the filmomat till I get everything fixed, and if it's too much i'll outsource till I get the machine back up

 

[koraks]

Yeah, that sounds pretty realistic. Good luck with your business, I hope it works out!

 

[MingMingPhoto]

Yeah, that sounds pretty realistic. Good luck with your business, I hope it works out!

thanks man

 

[foc]

Who are you going to fall back on once the machine throws the inevitable tantrum?

Dip and dunk would be ideal but they require a very large footprint. That is why I suggested a V30 or similar in Fuji. They will be old machines and should only be purchased refurbished and with some sort of warranty (if possible)

@MingMingPhoto could look here. https://www.serranorey.com/

Commercial processing involves a large learning curve and ideally a little mechanical/electronic knowledge.

I would suggest @MingMingPhoto read these:

https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/default/files/wysiwyg/pro/chemistry/z131.pdf

https://asset.fujifilm.com/www/sg/files/2020-08/d57cd62e303cb838f59110bed2d646e3/cn16lq_.pdf

And buy a densitometer. https://ndtsupply.com/film-viewers/densitometers.html

The V30 should be able to process around100 films per 8 hour day. (don't mind the sales blurb, it is always very optimistic)

@MingMingPhoto , I admire your enthusiasm and wish you the best of luck. I hope you are charging enough to make a decent profit.

 

[MingMingPhoto]

thank you for sharing @foc !

I'm wondering what I should be looking for with the commercial side. I'm just trying to keep up with demand at the moment and not wear myself out.

From my understanding all I need to do is learn to use a densitometer and control strips
and know how to figure out how to fix the machines when they break

is there something else I should be looking for? The v30s and similar all replenish the fixer and bleach at the right levels right? The developer is the one that will be the challenge no?

I've read z131, but not the fuji one you shared. Did you mean to share the fuji one? It's focused on paper not film I think - but if you think I should read it I will deff read it

which densitometer would you recommend? is there something I should be looking for? a particular spec?

 

[koraks]

should only be purchased refurbished and with some sort of warranty (if possible

Warranty would be nice; access to repair personnel or some kind of maintenance contract would be also highly relevant. With these machines, the question is not if they'll fail, but when. And some basic electronics knowledge is not going to cut it when that happens.

 

[MingMingPhoto]

Warranty would be nice; access to repair personnel or some kind of maintenance contract would be also highly relevant. With these machines, the question is not if they'll fail, but when. And some basic electronics knowledge is not going to cut it when that happens.

does anyone know repair people in new york city? if not how do I find one? is there a website or facebook gorup for example

 

[Lachlan Young]

forgive me, maybe like 700-1000 rolls a month. It felt like thousands but I just checked

but word I get you, but I don't have to space for a dip adn dunk or the volume I'm rpetty sure or the know how. I also need to buy a densitometer soon for the v30 sicne I can't use the devloper one shot.

do you have advice for the question I asked though?

The Colenta is about 50% heavier than the V30 and needs 3-phase power - I think the V30 is around 14A at 230v requirement. The Colenta can take anything up to machine width (i.e. sheet formats), the V30 is limited to 135/120 etc - and the Colenta can do push/pull as standard, whereas you'd need a V30 variant to get that. I'd go with a through-wall install for the Colenta as I've seen too many screwed up films off bad loading habits (rushing/ carelessness) in the darkbox version - but having worked extensively with films that have variously been processed in Colentas, V30's, dip/dunk machines & Jobos of various sorts, my own opinion is that a Jobo run on single-shot basis or a well controlled (and properly replenished for the film speeds going through) dip/dunk machine are the most reliable in terms of good results and not requiring meticulous and routine cleaning of the rollers. For the quantities you are doing, even the biggest Jobo Autolab (2.5-3x your current capacity) would be pretty maddening to run - and you'd need a lot of reels. Which isn't to say that I'd avoid RT machines - but I'd only use them in preference for very specific purposes.

 

[PaulYW]

What scanner do you use currently and where did you get one? Make sure to find someone reliable who can provide repair service and information you need before you make purchase of any processors or scanners.
Google the vendor and ask your friends who run minilab where they do business with. Again, Make sure to check the condition of the processor and warranty they give before you purchase.
I personally recommend V50. If you find one in good condition, you won't regret it.