Using the same developer alternatively diluted and stock

[Francesco_from_Rome]

Hi, I've got a small doubt. Usually I develop with diluted ID-11 (1+3) and I use it one-shot. But I've read that stock developer can be reused, similar to the fixer. This is interesting to me because for some of the rolls that I have to develop Ilford's only recommendation is to use undiluted, stock developer (and I am inclined to follow their suggestions!).

Now my question: I have mixed 1l of ID-11. I develop 1 120 roll and I use 500 ml. Then I pour it back in my 1l bottle (I have 500 ml "fresh" and 500 ml "seasoned"). If I were to always use it as stock, I would simply follow the percentage increase recommended by Ilford. But what if I want to use the developer as diluted? Can I simply make a 1+3 solution from this seasoned developer? Do I have to increase the times in the same way? Or is it simply not recommended and I will use this bottle always as "replenished stock" and not use part of it diluted (and one shot)?

Thanks,

Francesco

 

[Ian Grant]

Once you've begun using a developer you cant use it 1+3. I used id-11 replenished for many years, it gives results more comparable to 1+2, I think a 1 litre pack is too small an amount to use on a replenished basis. I'd use a 5 litre pack and use 2.5 ltres as stock and the other 2.5 litres as Ilford now recommend for replenishment.

Ian

 

[Francesco_from_Rome]

Once you've begun using a developer you cant use it 1+3. I used id-11 replenished for many years, it gives results more comparable to 1+2, I think a 1 litre pack is too small an amount to use on a replenished basis. I'd use a 5 litre pack and use 2.5 ltres as stock and the other 2.5 litres as Ilford now recommend for replenishment.

Ian

Thanks Ian. So if I plan to re-use developer, I will only use it as stock. I have read the following document by Ilford "PERCEPTOL,ID-11 ANDFILMDEVELOPERS" available at http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2011427133131459.pdf .
It says "REUSING DEVELOPER WITHOUTREPLENISHMENT. ID-11, MICROPHEN and PERCEPTOL stockdevelopers can be used in spiral tanks or deeptanks without replenishment to process either anumber of films individually or multiple films inbatches.

The table below gives the number of 135/36 or
120 roll films a litre of stock PERCEPTOL, ID-11
and MICROPHEN can process provided that the
developer is reused.

[for ID-11 and Microphen: 10]


As each film or batch of films is processed it
releases halides and other by-products into the
developer that act as a restrainer on the
development of subsequent films. For this reason
development times will need some adjustment after
each successive film or batch of films. To calculate
the adjustment a tally must be kept of the number
of films processed in the developer solution.
"

And of course "We do not recommend reusing diluted developers,1+1 and 1+3, always use fresh solutions on eachoccasion."

I am unable to find a reference to the 2.5 stock + 2.5 replenisher which you mention. I plan to simply develop 10 rolls from 1l of stock solution each time pouring back the used amount in the same bottle and increasing the development times as recommended. Do you think this is not recommended/will lead to uneven development or potential issues?

Thanks,
Francesco

 

[Ian Grant]

Francesco, they don't give those figures, they say buy 2 packs use one as stock the other to replenish in this PDF The original replenisher has been withdrawn.

When I used Xtol I'd make up a 5 litre pack then split 2.5 litres as stock and the rest as the replenisher, using a reasonable volume as stock helps even out slight variations you might get replenishing 500ml. As ID-11 comes in 5 litre packs I'd do the same and replenish as Ilford suggest in the PDF.

Ian

 

[jeffreyg]

I have been using ID11 also for very many years. I use it 1:1 with 120 Delta 100, Delta 400 and 4x5 HP5. For me it easier to adjust the temperature because I keep a gallon of distilled water in the refrigerator since it rarely if ever gets to 68F in our house. I mix their 5L pack and store it in lightproof bottles filled to the top. I only use it once.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

 

[Francesco_from_Rome]

Francesco, they don't give those figures, they say buy 2 packs use one as stock the other to replenish in this PDF The original replenisher has been withdrawn.

When I used Xtol I'd make up a 5 litre pack then split 2.5 litres as stock and the rest as the replenisher, using a reasonable volume as stock helps even out slight variations you might get replenishing 500ml. As ID-11 comes in 5 litre packs I'd do the same and replenish as Ilford suggest in the PDF.

Ian

Ian, thanks for the link. As I read it they give two alternative methods:
- the first one (the route that I was going to take) is to reuse the solution compensating by increasing the times
- the second one is to make 1l (or 5l) of replenisher solution with a ratio of 2 A sachets to 1 B sachet in 1l (or 5l) of water.

IF I understood, this method would give 1l (or 5l) of replenisher to be used with corresponding amount of stock developer (and so, not 2.5l + 2.5l coming from original 5l like I understood from your previous message). If I were using a self replenishing developer, I could mix 5l of stock, split in two bottles and label one as stock and the other as replenisher.... But id-11 is not its replenisher (as can be seen from the need to use only 1 B sachet instead of 2). Am I missing something?

Sorry if my questions are too naive.

Francesco

 

[gone]

It's not you, its the PDF, which is poorly and in-concisely written. What I think they mean is to mix up one batch of developer as you normally would, then mix up another batch to use as a replenisher, BUT on this one you will be leaving out one of the Part B packets when you mix it up. You won't be using the latter for developing, only replenishing the first batch of developer that you mixed up.

As for their other scheme, wherein you are compensating your times on used developer to develop more rolls of film, my experience w/ other developers gave me results that were what might be termed "good enough", but not as consistent as using fresh developer.