Using TF-4 Fixer for papers: One bath or Two?

Jerry Thirsty · Jan 23, 2006

The subject line says it all. Did a search and didn't turn up anything obvious, only two comments in another thread that contradicted each other. So, any recommendations?

Thanks,
Jerry

Nick Zentena · Jan 23, 2006

Always use a two bath IMHO. Unless you don't mine throwing out pretty good fixer. Or you aren't worried about archival. The only time I use single bath is for test strips/prints.

df cardwell · Jan 23, 2006

Check with Formulary for their suggestion. It is VERY different from acid fixers.

Tom Hoskinson · Jan 23, 2006

I always use two fixing baths when fixing fiber prints. I am a TF-4 user and I also use other similar Ammonium Thiosulfate based rapid fixers.

Grant Haist documented the benefits of using two fixing baths in pages 639 through 649 of Modern Photographic Processing. Published by Wiley-Interscience, 1979

Jerry Thirsty · Jan 23, 2006

Okay, thanks all. I have always used two baths (Kodak fixer with a stop bath), and I wasn't sure if perhaps the TF-4 isn't as susceptible to contamination by the developer, since only a water rinse is needed between them. I'm thinking of getting trays so I can do 16"x20", and my current work table won't be big enough. I have enough floor space to add another table, but thought I would check first in case I could eliminate one tray.

thanks,
Jerry

Tom Hoskinson · Jan 23, 2006

Jerry Thirsty said:
I wasn't sure if perhaps the TF-4 isn't as susceptible to contamination by the developer.

thanks,
Jerry

Jerry, it is not developer contamination of the fix that causes the problem. It is the contamination of the Fixer Bath by silver that can cause a problem. The use of 2 fixing baths aims at keeping one of the two baths as free of silver contamination as possible.

Again, I refer you to Grant Haist (former director of Research and Development at Kodak) See Grant Haist's Modern Photographic Processing, Volume 1, pages 638 through 679. Published by Wiley-Interscience 1979.

Daniel Lawton · Jan 23, 2006

IMO, TF4 is as "bulletproof" a fixer as you will find and I use it as a single bath with no problems. I routinely check my fixer with the edwal hypo test and film strips as well and find that working strength TF-4 will last insanely long and handle a large amount of paper compared to other fixers. I also tone all my prints and if I had problems with inadequate fixing it would show up almost immediately in the form of stains when I selenium tone. I haven't had this problem. Archival is archival and if I can get archival prints using a single bath I'll do so since it streamlines the process and with TF-4 I don't find I am wasting fixer doing so.

Wally H · Jan 23, 2006

I have used a single bath TF4 fixer for many years, (both for film [tmx-120] & prints [Ilford MG Fibers]). I have a seperate working solution for film as apposed to paper. I test with Edwal's Hypo Test solution before / during / after each use, but most often discontinue use due to age (6 months). I use a water stop bath and BW65 developer.

dancqu · Jan 23, 2006

Jerry Thirsty said:
... thought I would check first in
case I could eliminate one tray.
Jerry

Fixing print paper is a very quantitative matter.
So much silver requires so much fixer. Fixers don't
turn ON or OFF at some certain concentrations.
Single bath archival fixing which is quick and
gets great milage is easy. The secret is the
Very Dilute fix.

TF-4 is a Troop high alkaline fixer. I don't know it's
exact strength so cannot suggest an exact amount.
If it the same strength as P. Formulary's A. Thio.
concentrate, 24 ml will do. The same number
of grams of S. Thio. anhydrous will also do.
Either in 1 liter. S. Thio. is handy. Spoon
up a fresh fix each print.

I'd follow that single bath, very dilute, archival fix with
a rinse, half strength one-shot hca, and a rinse. Dan

Tom Hoskinson · Jan 23, 2006

dancqu said:
TF-4 is a Troop high alkaline fixer. I don't know it's
exact strength so cannot suggest an exact amount.
If it the same strength as P. Formulary's A. Thio.
concentrate, 24 ml will do. The same number
of grams of S. Thio. anhydrous will also do.
Either in 1 liter. S. Thio. is handy. Spoon
up a fresh fix each print.

I'd follow that single bath, very dilute, archival fix with
a rinse, half strength one-shot hca, and a rinse. Dan

As you know, Dan, I use the single bath, very dilute archival fix method to archivally fix all my film. Usually, I use 24ml of 60% Ammonium Thiosulfate as a single shot fixer.

For archivally fixing fiber based paper I still use the 2 Bath method (just haven't quite got around to switching to single shot fixing for fiber based paper prints).

dancqu · Jan 27, 2006

Tom Hoskinson said:
... I use the single bath, very dilute archival fix method
to archivally fix all my film. Usually, I use 24ml of 60%
Ammonium Thiosulfate as a single shot fixer.

For archivally fixing fiber based paper I still use
the 2 Bath method ...

Solution volume must be relatively high in order to
archival fix in one bath. Haist and Ilford have published
upper limits for silver per liter. An 8 x 10 in a 250 ml volume
will split the difference twixt those two; .2 and .5 grams silver
per liter. That assumes .08 grams silver in an unexposed 8 x 10.
Worst case you might say.

Haist and Ilford speak of the capacity of a fixer in terms
of dissolved silver per liter of fixer. Fixer. Just fixer. What
fixer? What concentration? Perhaps even what ph?

I puzzled over that for some time. Then it dawned on me.
Just as the two said, "per liter". So as long as there is
adequate chemistry the limit is volumetric and that is
silver per unit volume. And that goes for less than
archival results. Dan

Using TF-4 Fixer for papers: One bath or Two?

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