Using steam distilled water from a condensing tumble dryer

[Simonh82]

My Father in Law has just moved in to our house and brought with him a condensing tumble dryer. Rather than exhaust the vapour out of an outlet, the steam condenses and is held in a tank which is emptied after each load. At the moment it is going straight down the drain but it occurred to me that this essentially steam distilled water, that I would otherwise have to pay a high price for from shops (OK, I know i'm paying for it through my electricity bills but still).

If I were to filter it through say a coffee filter and then a 20 micron filter from a Paterson water filter, would it be safe to use for mixing up processing chemicals? Can anyone see any downsides. I guess I will just have to check very carefully to make sure there is no dust and fluff left in it. Saying that, the super hard London water, running through 85 year old pipe work I'm using at the moment can't be any worse.

 

[bsdunek]

I would say it's worth a try. Your filtering idea should take out any dust & fluff. I once tried the water from a dehumidifier which is also condensed. The problem was bacteria, which won't filter out. Stuff started growing in it! I would think the dryer would have a high enough temperature to kill bacteria.

 

[ic-racer]

The most important thing for processing film is water free from particulate debris. Water from a dryer seems like the worst thing one could use for film processing.

 

[railwayman3]

The water will have been condensed from water vapour rather than steam, so not as sterile as proper steam distilled water. Also the dust and possible detergent/fabric conditioner residues which could have blown through. (My last dryer failed twice in two years through build-up of solid fluff and gunge in the condenser section !)

 

[pentaxuser]

Simon I asked the very same question on another forum and was warned off with what seemed good reasons but I can't remember what there were. Maybe a condenser clothes dryer was placed in the same category as a dehumidifier which would be wrong based on reasons given here. They are different animals.

I even poured the water into a glass after draining the water tank in the dryer and it looked perfectly clear to me but maybe there are particulates and human eyesight isn't good enough to pick them out.

I must say I am nagged by the thought that I may be wasting good steam distilled water.

If you try it let us know how you get on

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[tkamiya]

I wouldn't for a reason it is of unknown quality.

Vapor condensate sounds good. But, even after filtering, there is no way to know what is still there. (without extensive analysis)

The minimum quality I'd accept for film processing is, I would drink it and I would cook with it. Dryer condensate fails on both of those. I wouldn't drink it. So I wouldn't use it in film processing.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

The water will have been condensed from water vapour rather than steam, so not as sterile as proper steam distilled water. Also the dust and possible detergent/fabric conditioner residues which could have blown through. (My last dryer failed twice in two years through build-up of solid fluff and gunge in the condenser section !)

What's the difference between water vapour and steam?

 

[gone]

If you're going to filter it through something like a coffee filter, I can't see any problem. Remember, I'm the guy that accidentally turned on the hot water tap instead of the cold one, and let my negs wash for 40 minutes in 130 degree water in a Paterson tank recently. I posted the results here....the negs looked perfectly fine! So I suspect film is a lot hardier than we give it credit for.

Since I started filtering all my developing and fixer chemicals through a plain old paper coffee filter, most, if not all, of my film debris issues have disappeared. Printing papers are not so fussy. You'll have to put some pebbles or something in the empty paper filter before you pour stuff into it or you'll have problems. I just went out in the front yard and gathered up some small rocks, washed them off, and use the same ones over and over.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

It's not without reason that chemists consider water to be the universal solvent. It has the ability to dissolve a varying amount of just about everything it contacts. This is why water stills must be carefully constructed to avoid certain metals. The highest purity water which is used in conductivity measurements can only be made in equipment made of fused silica. Ordinary glass cannot be used because glass is made with soda ash and the sodium ions from it will make the water unfit for this type of experiment. Water will also dissolve gasses from the iar, carbon dioxide in particular. Steam will also bring along particulates like mold and dust when it condenses.

It always amazes me when ideas like this appear in posts. After spending time and money on film and chemicals the poster is willing to risk all for the sake of a few pennies. Makes no sense.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Coffee filters are made to filter out coffee grounds and may do a poor job with finer particulates. Filtration rate is based on the pore size of the paper. Since we don't want to wait a long time for our coffee the pore size of coffee filters is quite large. Laboratory grade filter paper, which you really need for photo solutions, has a finer, more uniform pore size. The only coffee filters that I have found to be satisfactory for non-coffee use are those made for the Chehex brand coffee makers. You want the flat circular ones not the pocket type. They are not expensive and are readily available on the net and come in large sizes to ease the filtration of large amounts of liquid.

 

[winger]

It's not without reason that chemists consider water to be the universal solvent. It has the ability to dissolve a varying amount of just about everything it contacts. This is why water stills must be carefully constructed to avoid certain metals. The highest purity water which is used in conductivity measurements can only be made in equipment made of fused silica. Ordinary glass cannot be used because glass is made with soda ash and the sodium ions from it will make the water unfit for this type of experiment. Water will also dissolve gasses from the iar, carbon dioxide in particular. Steam will also bring along particulates like mold and dust when it condenses.

It always amazes me when ideas like this appear in posts. After spending time and money on film and chemicals the poster is willing to risk all for the sake of a few pennies. Makes no sense.

+1 (and then some)

Using a filter will get the particles you can see. It won't get what's dissolved in the water. Residues from detergents and dryer sheets and whatever is in your water to start with could all still be in this water. I don't use our well water from the tap because of all the crud that's in it - I'd consider the stuff from the dryer to be worse than that.

If you really want to save this water to use it for something, use it to wash the sink or your car.

 

[railwayman3]

What's the difference between water vapour and steam?

Water vapour in the air is formed by evaporation from liquid water, which occurs at any temperature, even from solid ice. Steam is (strictly speaking) the invisible gaseous form of water, formed by boiling.....hence distilled water has been largely sterilised by the high temperature of boiling. (A condenser dryer would not boil the water in the clothes.)

Condensation from water vapour in the air can occur on anything cold (e.g. your house windows), hence the purity and cleanliness depends entirely on where it is collected.

 

[NedL]

... The only coffee filters that I have found to be satisfactory for non-coffee use are those made for the Chehex brand coffee makers. ...

Pretty sure that's a typo and you mean Chemex coffee filters.

I don't use them for photography but I do use them every morning to make coffee from my home roasted beans!
There is one nearby hardware store that sells Chemex filters, but I usually buy them when ordering green coffee beans from Sweet Marias

 

[bdial]

+ another on the no side. I have a condensing dryer, I wouldn't remotely consider using the water for the darkroom.
Mine doesn't use the tank (it discharges directly to the drain), but just seeing what's in the condenser is enough evidence that it's a bad idea.

 

[edcculus]

I'd use it for grey water. Flushing toilets etc. Maybe even watering plants and the like.

 

[AgX]

At many places de-ionized water can be obtained quite cheap. Thus for many of us the price advantage of dryer condensate is small.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Pretty sure that's a typo and you mean Chemex coffee filters.

I don't use them for photography but I do use them every morning to make coffee from my home roasted beans!
There is one nearby hardware store that sells Chemex filters, but I usually buy them when ordering green coffee beans from Sweet Marias

Yes, hopefully this will be a thing of the past as I am getting cataract surgery on Tuesday. Thanks for posting a good link to a source.

 

[NedL]

Good luck Jerry, I hope it goes well.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

Water vapour in the air is formed by evaporation from liquid water, which occurs at any temperature, even from solid ice. Steam is (strictly speaking) the invisible gaseous form of water, formed by boiling.....hence distilled water has been largely sterilised by the high temperature of boiling. (A condenser dryer would not boil the water in the clothes.)

Condensation from water vapour in the air can occur on anything cold (e.g. your house windows), hence the purity and cleanliness depends entirely on where it is collected.

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[Simonh82]

Thank you to all for the clear answers. If I thought about it I do know the difference between water vapour and steam but I didn't really think this through.

I don't want to take a risk with my photos, which I why I asked first but the water comes comes out looking completely clear with no visible particulates or odour, so I thought the combination of coffee filter and Paterson 20 micron filter could be good enough. I forgot about the potential for chemicals to be actually dissolved in the water vapour as I thought the evaporation process would leave these behind.

Out of interest, if the water temperature had been raised to 100 oC and had turned to steam, would this have effectively purified it, even if it picked up dust and mold later on in the condensing process? If so, what is it about the higher temperature that means dissolved chemicals would no long be present in the distillate, especially if they had lower boiling points?

I know these things aren't the most expensive part of the photographic process, although I think steam distilled water is more expensive in the UK than the prices i've seen quoted for the US but I didn't want to look a gift horse in the mouth.

 

[pentaxuser]

Some good questions, Simon. I wonder what chemicals and particulates are in our drinking water which I have used for years without a problem.

You might want to try say half of one film in the condensed water and the other in your tap water to see if there is any difference.

pentaxuser

 

[RattyMouse]

Distillation (evaporating water followed by condensing) is a purification procedure as long as the condensing environment is free and clear of contaminates. If you see no particulates in your water after collection, I'd be inclined to think that it is OK to use. If possible, I'd check pH and conductivity to confirm nothing unusual going on but other than that, this water seems very useable.