Using Single 8 film in a Super 8 camera

[sophisee]

Has anybody had experience with using Single 8 film in a Super 8 camera? I know the cartridges are completely different, but I was wondering if I could open the Single 8 in a dark room and roll it into a Super 8 cannister - or even just roll it in a way that it would work in a Super 8 camera. I'd buy another Single 8 camera but I'm getting sick of buying products that are broken or incompatible. I know it'd be a strange way of doing things but the effects could be interesting. What do you think?

 

[AgX]

It would be a hassle respooling the film.

"but the effects could be interesting"

I can't imagine any effects aside of the hassle.
(Well, if your Super-8 camera relies on the speed setting by the cartridge, respooling could lead to a wrong setting. But that could be achieved more simple by just manipulating the Super-8 cassette.)

 

[Dan Fromm]

sophisee, what interesting effects do you have in mind? The only reason to use Single-8 film in a Super 8 camera is to get to use a Fuji emulsion that will do something no Super 8 emulsion will do.

When I was shooting movies (Super 8, although I bought a ZC-1000 for its lens, which I thought I might use on one of my Beaulieus) people talked about Soviet imitation Super 8 cartridges that were said to be reloadable. As far as I know they were a myth. Super 8 cartridges as made in the west aren't reloadable.

Reloading film received in a Super 8 cartridge into a Single 8 cartridge is possible, and for me would have been a way of shooting K-40 (usually with a conversion filter in front of the lens) in my ZC but just wasn't worth the effort.

About used small gauge cine cameras. If Lenny Lipton (see The Super8 Book) is to be believed a substantial fraction of new Super 8 cameras were dead when received from the factory. My first, a Yashica SU-60E, was. Aged ones are even worse. Back when I was buying used S8 cameras, the only ones I bought that were consistently OK were early egg-shaped Bauers. But my sample was small and I may have been lucky.

You can't avoid taking chances. Pick a format/packaging (8/8, Single-8 if you think you can get the film, Super 8, DS8) and stick with it.

 

[AgX]

"but the effects could be interesting"

Today there are various fresh emulsions available from third party suppliers converted to Single-8 or Super-8. That would save you the hassle of opening the cassette and of respooling.
You might play with old unexposed Super-8 cassettes or "treat" them before exposing.

 

[tokam]

I'm not sure that single 8 film would feed properly in a Super 8 camera. Issues with sprocket hole size, positioning and spacing.

 

[AgX]

Single-8 and Super-8 films as such are identical in standards, except for:

-) base material

-) base thickness

 

[Alex Muir]

There used to be a quarterly magazine published in the UK called International Movie Maker. It was produced by Roy Salmons who had a shop called Photoworld in Craig y Don, Llandudno. I subscribed for a few years as it contained lots of good info about small gauge cine. I'm sure there was an article at one stage about re-loading Super8 cartridges. From memory, however, it was not that easy. I'm guessing you have some Single 8 stock you want to use, but the cameras have been unreliable? I've never used Single 8, or had a hold of one of the cameras, but they were mentioned regularly in that magazine. Users seemed to be very keen on them. I have bought, and used, a number of Super 8 cameras over the years and they have all worked. The most reliable has been a Canon 514XL which has the advantage of running on two AA batteries without a separate meter battery. Some of the older models, like the Bolex 150 series don't always give accurate exposures, but more recent cameras have all been ok. I know the claimed advantage of Single 8 is the use of a proper gate in the camera to keep the film flat, but I've had some fairly good results with Super 8. I suppose it depends on what you are filming. I would think that re-spooling Single to Super would be risky, and a last resort. If you have a load of Single 8 film and want to move on to Super 8, you might be safer selling it.
Alex.

 

[Bill Burk]

Sprocket hole size is different.

Super-8 sprocket holes are smaller.

At least working in your favor... larger holes would accommodate a smaller feed mechanism. So reliability of feed might be an issue but maybe a minor one.

The gate is different too, but this wouldn't impact your experiment.

Super-8 projectors often supported both formats with the flip of a switch. Mine might use the same feed for both, which would help answer feed reliability (if a projector can easily feed both, no reason a camera wouldn't be able to.)

 

[AgX]

Bill, you are mixing up Single-8 with Standard-8.


The latter was also called Double-8.
Who gave names to all those animals...?

 

[Bill Burk]

Haa AgX, of course.

 

[ic-racer]

Has anybody had experience with using Single 8 film in a Super 8 camera? I know the cartridges are completely different, but I was wondering if I could open the Single 8 in a dark room and roll it into a Super 8 cannister - or even just roll it in a way that it would work in a Super 8 camera. I'd buy another Single 8 camera but I'm getting sick of buying products that are broken or incompatible. I know it'd be a strange way of doing things but the effects could be interesting. What do you think?

No, obviously you can't put 16mm wide film in a super 8 cartridge or camera. Unless you intend on splitting it in the dark first and loading it into a re-used cartridge. LOL.

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

Why not just buy some Super8 fresh cassettes?
Adox makes a B&W film and Wittner makes some colour films.

Some people really like to complicate things.
If Super8 was dead, I can imagine wanting to re-use other formats. But that isn't the case.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

I am using double x foma 100 r bw film in my bolex c8 as a single frame camera. Wittner is good but they requested 45 euro with postage per ektachrome double x , yes 4000 or less frames but 45 euro is 45 euro , it makes hell of money in turkish lira , may be this summer not earlier. Some canon cameras are excellent , hell of color and leica feel. I would not stop to invest in 25 dollars via ebay and use these new kodak films.

 

[Dan Fromm]

No, obviously you can't put 16mm wide film in a super 8 cartridge or camera. Unless you intend on splitting it in the dark first and loading it into a re-used cartridge. LOL.

ic, Single8 is not 16 mm film. It is the same width as Super 8, has the same perforations and the perforations are located the same distance from the top of the frame. Frame sizes are the same too. The two can be and have been intercut. As has been mentioned earlier in this discussion, the only differences between the films besides the cartridges they're packed in are in the base material and thickness.

 

[AgX]

And with latest conversions even these principal differences may be gone (as with current Agfachrome in Super-8 cassettes).