Using Rodinal as a print developer

StoneNYC · Sep 17, 2014

I once saw a Rodinal advertisement that gave different dilutions for both film and paper, as well as plates and lantern slides.

So I decided to do my own experiment and see if the new version of Rodinal, since that ad was probably from the early turn of the century (1900's-1940's?) was before revisions were made to the developer we still use today, would print.

I used both an RC type paper and a FB/Rag type paper.

Both gave a print image but both were weak and the images were sort of brown not black.

Is it the Rodinal that changed or the paper? Or the actual emulsion on the paper itself?

Thanksz

el wacho · Sep 17, 2014

What dilution did you use?

Athiril · Sep 17, 2014

Its like that unless you add some stuff to it. Notably some hydroquinone or ascborate. Sodium Carbonate and sodium sulphite.

Xmas · Sep 17, 2014

1+7...

You have not accepted that all the Rodinals, Azol, etc., ... are clones.

Ian Grant · Sep 17, 2014

Rodinal will work well as a print developer but at higher concentration than needed for films, somewhere between 1+10 to 1+15, maybe even 1+20 but you'd need to test.

Conversely some print developers like Ilford PQ Universal, Champion Suprol etc will work well as fine grain film developers at higher dilutions like 1+29 or for higher contrast 1+19.

Papers need more vigorous development than films that's usually a reflection of the final dilution but it can also be controlled by adjusting the pH.

Ian

Ian Grant · Sep 17, 2014

Xmas said:
1+7...

You have not accepted that all the Rodinals, Azol, etc., ... are clones.

The major difference between modern Rodinal - RO9 is when it was reformulated, when Agfa merged with Gevaert, around 1963/4 the pH was increased and as a consequence the dilutions change to compensate.

Ilford's version of Rodinal - Certinal - dates back to about 1907. around the same time that Mees & Sheppard worked on p-aminiphenol developers at Wratten & Wainwright - Kodak later selling Kodinol, their clone.

Ian

Xmas · Sep 17, 2014

Did they not change the concentration pre to post WWII?

When I wanted warm tone from MQ I added

water &
KBr

to dev tray and developed for lot longer difficult to not snatch...

Ian Grant · Sep 17, 2014

Xmas said:
Did they not change the concentration pre to post WWII?

When I wanted warm tone from MQ I added

water &
KBr

to dev tray and developed for lot longer difficult to not snatch...

No the concentration was only changed in the 60's, which was why it differed from the Orwo/Calbe RO9 which was based on the pre-WWII Agfa Rodinal formula.

The Calbe version was changed more recently so the effective concentrations allowing for pH differences matched more closely.

Ian

Terry Christian · Sep 17, 2014

Here's an old advertisement with dilutions. I've used Rodinal for prints and it works.

StoneNYC · Sep 17, 2014

Terry Christian said:
Here's an old advertisement with dilutions. I've used Rodinal for prints and it works.

Hmmm this is actually the dilution I try to use, and almost nothing came out but a very faint image, so I added more to the batch and made it something like 1 to 10, and that seem to develop something very very slowly, but I had to leave it in the developer for about 10 to 15 minutes.

This was A pile that was at my school, so it's entirely possible that it's lost its potency and has gone bad and that's why you didn't work, I can always bring in a fresh batch to see, it worked but it was very difficult to get an image out of it and they're very faint, not strong blacks or anything, it also tried over blowing the image a lot, and it seem to have almost no effect on the contrast it just seem to stay the same just to help you over a very long time, The last image done on the fiber-based paper instead of a resin coated paper was left in for almost an hour, and I got an image but it certainly wasn't strong.

If it's simply a case of the developer being bad, I'll go and try again using some fresh developer, Terry what dilution did you choose? I tried 1:80 and then 1:10 and the 1:10 seemed to work but again it could have gone bad?

Terry Christian · Sep 17, 2014

Stone, I haven't done it much but I think it was somewhere around 1:50. Make sure that your paper is fresh and that you're rocking the tray regularly during development, since odds are your Rodinal is potent (unless it has been left dilute in the tray for a long time).

el wacho · Sep 17, 2014

1:8 with about 2ml of 10% kbr clears the highlights. Ymmv since I used parodinal but I suspect it should be close. Beware of vapours at that dilution. The paper was mgfb 1k.

StoneNYC · Sep 17, 2014

Terry Christian said:
Stone, I haven't done it much but I think it was somewhere around 1:50. Make sure that your paper is fresh and that you're rocking the tray regularly during development, since odds are your Rodinal is potent (unless it has been left dilute in the tray for a long time).

The paper is certainly fresh, I'm thinking this Rodinal is bad... It's the schools so students might have screwed it up, it's also AGFA Rodinal so who knows how long it's been there LOL.

Versus...

Newt_on_Swings · Sep 17, 2014

cool experiment, maybe it prints like lith printing, with lots of exposure and snatching it after awhile in the developer?

erikg · Sep 17, 2014

Ian Grant said:
The major difference between modern Rodinal - RO9 is when it was reformulated, when Agfa merged with Gevaert, around 1963/4 the pH was increased and as a consequence the dilutions change to compensate.

Ilford's version of Rodinal - Certinal - dates back to about 1907. around the same time that Mees & Sheppard worked on p-aminiphenol developers at Wratten & Wainwright - Kodak later selling Kodinol, their clone.

Ian

Always a font of knowledge on this stuff! Amazing.

vickersdc · Jan 25, 2021

Thanks to this thread, I just resurrected my 1896 Underwood 'Instanto' 1/4 plate camera and shot a couple of paper negatives in it again (something I've not done for years!). I have some Rodinal that I've been developing my Fomapan 100 in recently and I was very pleased with the results developing the paper in it (paper neg on the lightbox shown)...

vickersdc · Jan 29, 2021

Just tried developing paper in Rodinal again (at 1+20) with good results. Exposure was guessed at 20 seconds with yellow / green filter fitted to the Underwood Instanto 1/4-plate camera (original lens).

Reversed in Lightroom (recently moved house and haven't got the enlarger up and running yet!)...

Using Rodinal as a print developer

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