Using Photo-Flo on color negs

DanielStone · May 26, 2009

hey all,

i've found that by giving my color negs a little soak in photo-flo/distilled h2o after the stabilizer step in my c-41 processing, i have been getting the cleanest negs to date. At least with my personal processing

I seem to remember that someone here recommended that this not be done. I just want to confirm that if it is true.

So, is using a very mild photo-flo/distilled water solution (same as for b/w negs) ok for c-41 films?

I hate having to clean negs before printing......

nickandre · May 26, 2009

It won't hurt them but they're not getting their bath of bacteria killer. Without that you are likely to get fungus and whatnot eating at your negatives because they lack any silver which protects the gelatine of the emulsion from eating.

Try adding photo flo to the stabilizer if it doesn't contain a surfactant. I know the tetenal press kit doesn't. That's a better way to go. Or buy the C41 stabilizer Kodak sells.

DanielStone · May 26, 2009

tiberiustibz said:
It won't hurt them but they're not getting their bath of bacteria killer. Without that you are likely to get fungus and whatnot eating at your negatives because they lack any silver which protects the gelatine of the emulsion from eating.

Try adding photo flo to the stabilizer if it doesn't contain a surfactant. I know the tetenal press kit doesn't. That's a better way to go. Or buy the C41 stabilizer Kodak sells.

Indeed, I have been using the stabilizer as Kodak reccomends. What I'm wondering is if using the distilled water/photo-flo bath after the stabilizing step will do the negs any harm in the long term.

I don't want any fungus/funk eating my negs thank you very much

nworth · May 26, 2009

The old stabilizer was Photoflo, formalin, and water; the new final rinse contains a wetting agent. Suitably dilute Photoflo should do no harm.

mts · May 26, 2009

Being too lazy to mix or keep mixed diluted photo-flo, I use stabilizer for both color negative, E-6, and black & white negatives. The formalin isn't needed for b&w owing to the silver content, but it does not hurt. In my opinion, you definitely should be using a stabilizer with a wetting agent, although it's my understanding that the most recent emulsions no longer need the formalin treatment.

nickandre · May 26, 2009

Modern color emulsions no longer need the dye stabilizing act of the formalin, but they do need the antiseptic properties. Color films dried with only photoflo will not be resistant to bacteria in fungus. You won't see it immediately, but I'd hate to open up a box of negatives in 10 years and find them eaten.

E76 · May 26, 2009

Why do you color negatives need anti-fungal treatment and black and white negatives do not? Is it the dyes or some other difference in the emulsion that makes color film a tasty treat?

Photo Engineer · May 26, 2009

Do not ever treat a color product with any bath after the stabilser or final rinse. It will eventuallycause problems.

B&W products do not need such treatment due to the fact that the silver metal is an antifungal/bacteriostat and the film contains no juicy organic materials. The silver is not present in color materials, it is all removed during processing.

Color Print materials contain some stabilzers incorporated into the coating, but you can use a stabilzer for color prints as well.

PE

DanielStone · May 26, 2009

Photo Engineer said:
Do not ever treat a color product with any bath after the stabilser or final rinse. It will eventuallycause problems.

B&W products do not need such treatment due to the fact that the silver metal is an antifungal/bacteriostat and the film contains no juicy organic materials. The silver is not present in color materials, it is all removed during processing.

Color Print materials contain some stabilzers incorporated into the coating, but you can use a stabilzer for color prints as well.

PE

so PE,

should i mix the stabilizer/ now final rinse with distilled water as i do with photo-flo? i have a little bit of a hard water problem in my area. not really hard, but enough to leave slight residue on negs. especially color.

nickandre · May 26, 2009

The kodak stabilizer includes photo flo in it... try adding a bit more concentrate if the water is still beading.

Photo Engineer · May 26, 2009

Yes, the final rinse or stabilzer is essentially Photo Flo 200 with additives.

Treat it as if it were photo flo and use nothing after that step.

PE

DanielStone · May 27, 2009

thanks PE =)

mtjade2007 · May 28, 2009

Soak two pieces of sponge with Final Rinse and squeeze them to remove most of the Final Rinse from them. Then use them to squeeze the negative coming out of the Final Rinse. Don't use just water for the sponge. It has to be the Final Rinse. Not only the film dries faster it is much cleaner too. I use to hang dry my negatives and there were always some dust on the film. Ever since I used the sponges there is hardly any dust on my negatives.

Abhi · Aug 25, 2018

Photo Engineer said:
Yes, the final rinse or stabilzer is essentially Photo Flo 200 with additives.

Treat it as if it were photo flo and use nothing after that step.

PE

IF we cant get a stabilizer, is there any alternate method?

mshchem · Aug 25, 2018

Stabilizer is used in rapid access minilabs to eliminate washing . The last 3 baths in a minilab are counter-current stabilizer baths. I wash my film throughly after the fixer step. The final step is Flexicolor Final rinse in DI water. I use no stabilizer with C-41 RA chemistry Developer, bleach , rinse ,fixer, wash, final rinse. The RA C41 chemistry is readily available in less than case quantities from Unique photo. I will not use the powdered C41 stuff.

When I print with RA-4, I develop ,stop,blix then wash for 2-3 minutes no stabilizer.

Photo Engineer · Aug 26, 2018

Use Kodak Final Rinse for C41.

PE

AgX · Aug 26, 2018

Stabilizer has several meanings:

-) a compound fixing retarded components in washless processes
-) Formaldehyde in some form to block a certain dye-coupler
-) a Bacteriocide/Fungizide to preseve the gelatin

Kilgallb · Aug 26, 2018

Several years ago PE suggested mixing the stabilizer in the Unicolor or tetanal kits with Photoflo 200. I do that and get good results. Basically I mix one litre distilled water, add 5ml of photo-flu 200 then throw in the small packet of stabilizer chemical..

mshchem · Aug 28, 2018

The powdered C41 kits are terrible, the solutions look disgusting, bleach and fixer should be separated. And stabilizer crystals that you dissolve in pure water re-crystallize, very small annoying crystals that form on the dry film.

I feel fortunate that the Kodak Flexicolor chemistry is readily available here in the US, and dirt cheap. I won't put my lovely Portra film in anything else

My Fujichrome gets the full Fuji-Hunt chemistry as well.

These folks that invented this stuff have a good reason for using "real" chemistry, not the 2 or 3 step hobby kits.

WilmarcoImaging · Aug 29, 2018

mschem, where are you sourcing your color chemistry?

Sirius Glass · Aug 29, 2018

mshchem said:
The powdered C41 kits are terrible, the solutions look disgusting, bleach and fixer should be separated. And stabilizer crystals that you dissolve in pure water re-crystallize, very small annoying crystals that form on the dry film.

I feel fortunate that the Kodak Flexicolor chemistry is readily available here in the US, and dirt cheap. I won't put my lovely Portra film in anything else

My Fujichrome gets the full Fuji-Hunt chemistry as well.

These folks that invented this stuff have a good reason for using "real" chemistry, not the 2 or 3 step hobby kits.

I get mine from FreeStyle and do not have those problems.

abruzzi · Aug 29, 2018

WilmarcoImaging said:
mschem, where are you sourcing your color chemistry?

I was curious, and googling around and I found this place:

http://www.omegabrandess.com/products/FLEXICOLOR-KODAK

I can’t vouch for them, but they seem to have a lot of the chems, but frequently in large quantities (25 gallons of E-6developer is probably more than I’ll use in a lifetime.)

mshchem · Aug 31, 2018

abruzzi said:
I was curious, and googling around and I found this place:

http://www.omegabrandess.com/products/FLEXICOLOR-KODAK

I can’t vouch for them, but they seem to have a lot of the chems, but frequently in large quantities (25 gallons of E-6developer is probably more than I’ll use in a lifetime.)

Unique photo New Jersey
You can buy 1 pack at a time. No need to buy cases
Final rinse, 5 bucks for enough to make 5 liters
https://www.uniquephoto.com/product/kodak-c-41-rinse-replenisher-tm-5-liters-8673170

5 liter C41 RA Fixer 12 bucks
https://www.uniquephoto.com/product...eplenisher-for-color-negative-film-5l-1077577

Developer Replenisher C41 14 bucks. Requires a 8 dollar bottle of starter should make around 6 liters of working solution developer.
https://www.uniquephoto.com/product/c-41-dev-repl-lorr-tm-5l-ek-kodak-xhaz-hazsp1-832-0608-8231672

Bleach C41 RA , this is expensive 55 bucks. Need a starter ,cheap. Replenishment rate is something like 8 ml per roll, this stuff lasts forever. And because this is the rapid access bleach, 1 minute bleach times. If you want you can still bleach for 6.5 minutes, it won't hurt anything.

https://www.uniquephoto.com/product...eplenisher-nr-for-color-negative-film-8255549

Unique sells the Rapid Access C41 chemistry 1 bottle at a time, this is because 99.75% of people that use Kodak chemistry wants the RA not the SM formulation.

If you try to get the maximum amount out of the (Jobo, Tetenal etc.) powdered kits blix times can extend to over 15 minutes.

I side with PE, film should have separate bleach and fixer. I wash my film throughly. so I don't use stabilizer. If I didn't have water I would use 3 separate stabilizer baths and rotate a fresh solution in every few rolls.

The final rinse "stabilizes" the film after washing . PE would have to tell you the chemistry, I suspect part of it serves as a biocide to preserve the gelatin from being consumed.

Unique is the only place I have found that will sell less than case quantities of Kodak color chemicals. Shipping is very reasonable .

I'm very loyal to Kodak and Fuji for color chemistry. I think Tetenal makes black and white chemicals for both Kodak and Ilford, even so I buy Kodak and Ilford black and white chemicals.
The listings for Kodak E-6 chemicals, I'm surprised that this is still produced ? That would be great if Kodak would start making kits again .
Best Regards Mike

Using Photo-Flo on color negs

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