Using Jobo Expert Drum "manually"

[Michael Mutmansky]

The slow decent into madness has begun... I have bought a 4x5 camera and while researching developing, came a cross a decently priced Jobo Expert Drum 3010, so I bought that. I was originally thinking I'd use the 2500 series drums and the 4x5 holder that you can purchase so that I could mount it on my Heiland TAS, which I quite like as an inversion processor.

However, previously, I had a Jobo CPP2 and some of the expert drums and those things are really excellent. I never got an imperfect sheet of 4x5 out of them. Never. And I processed hundreds of sheets back in the early 2000's. So now, I guess I'm on the hunt for a CPP2 or CPP3 that can handle Expert drums... Damn those things have gotten expensive. I can't even imagine dropping $4000 (actually nearly $5000 with shipping and tax) for a CPP3 unit, but maybe I should do that. Unless I can find a person-to-person sale, I'd be paying $2500 or so for a decent quality one from a dealer anyway probably. Cat Labs has an older CPP2 with the most recent motor and new lift for $3000... not much of a discount from a new CPP3.


Anyway, to the main question:

Until I decide what to do, I have the 3010 coming and I'd like to manually process with it, but I don't think I'd ever tried to do that when I had Expert drums before. Has anyone done manual rolling with an Expert drum? I'm sure that part is OK, but how about filling the drum with developer? Can you pre-rinse and then drain, turn it up, pour in the developer, and then turn it back on it's side fast enough to not have problems with developer fill limit marks on the film?

Yes, a cork/stopper in the spout while rolling...

 

[JensH]

Hi,

yes, I used Expert drums 3006 and 3010 without CPP or roller in a plain tray.
Just poor in 0.5l water/dev./stop/fix etc. and rotate by hand. Nothing floats out.
Change direction from time to time (like every two min.). For final wash open the drum and fill it completely, empty, fill again and so on.

Downsides:
- Temperature control is fine for room temperature, but I wouldn't do color processes this way.
- The drums get scratched.

Jens

 

[mshchem]

Jobo sells a desktop set of rollers, I've used it with a print drum, works great. Expert drums should work perfectly too, I don't think you'll need a stopper.

Definitely spend the extra bucks for the CPP3, I have both machines love both. Jobo still makes the CPP2 unit, or did until recently, for certain markets, not sure if available in the USA???

The real advantage of the CPP3, IMHO is long-term viability. The old machines are great but parts???

 

[MARTIE]

I use a rotary processor, so you could start off with one of those. Beseler is probably my favourite but I also use Jobo and Simma.

 

[MARTIE]

A roller motor base.

 

[Wolfram Malukker]

Look into a used rock tumbler base.

 

[Vaughn]

I use Unicolor motor bases. I take off the cover and modify them to not auto-reverse (easy to do).

I use the 3005 and 3006 Expert Drums. Can be filled while on the motor base and turning.

 

[mpirie]

I seem to remember seeing a Youtube video where someone used a retort stand with a funnel and flexible tube set in such a way as to allow the solutions to be added to the tank while it was manually rotated on the rollers.

Mike

 

[Michael Mutmansky]

I seem to remember seeing a Youtube video where someone used a retort stand with a funnel and flexible tube set in such a way as to allow the solutions to be added to the tank while it was manually rotated on the rollers.

Mike

That sounds like it would work just fine...

-----

I wonder... Can anyone compare the developing results of using a 2500 drum to the 3000 drum for 4x5 developing? The reason I ask is that I really have no use for a super sized CPP3 machine but the CPE3 would totally work for me (with the exception that I couldn't do 8x10 in it unless I fabricated a film holder to fit in the 2500 drum).

As I said at the beginning of the thread, I used the 3000 series drums for 4x5 and 8x10 developing and they always produced perfect results. I've never tried the non-expert drums for sheet film but I was under the impression they are a bit more prone to problems with uneven development. However, if they are just as effective as the expert drums, I wouldn't hesitate to go that approach (with a bit of this kind of research, of course).

I know CatLABS used to make an 8x10 sheet film holder spool for a 2500 drum. I wonder if that never really worked well or if it just didn't get a lot of volume of sales so they discontinued it. Does anyone know? Because if something like that is viable and works as well as the Expert drums, then I'd go the CPE3 route for sure, since I'll never be doing film longer than 8x10 in it.

Thanks for any knowledgeable feedback on these things.

 

[mpirie]

FWIW, i have both 2500 and 3000 series drums for my CPA2, so two options for 5x4 film processing on the Jobo.

I will reach for the 3000 drums every time. The 2500 tanks and 2509n reels seem to be prone to uneven development along the long edges that are in contact with the reel, even with the flow disrupting panels fitted.

There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to the uneven development, though it does seem to occur more often with highly dilute developers like Pyrocat HD/PMK. I have heard of others adding an eccentric cam mechanism that lifts the 2500 tank regularly, thus forcing the developer to mix more effectively and getting away from the laminar flows which may be responsible for the unevenness. I thought that was what the disrupting panels were for, but who-knows?

Mike

 

[koraks]

The 2500 tanks and 2509n reels seem to be prone to uneven development along the long edges that are in contact with the reel, even with the flow disrupting panels fitted.

Yes, I can confirm this. In my case, these problems go away when I introduce a pre-soak. This is with 4x5 on the 2509N reel, with the flaps fitted.

 

[Michael Mutmansky]

Thanks folks... These are the kinds of reports that I have seen about the spiral sheet reels that I want to avoid having to trouble shoot. In my case, 20 years ago, I used the 3010 and 3005 drums for this and never had any issues, but I'd never tried the 2500 drum 4x5 holders.

I'll probably be getting a CPP machine. Maybe a very recent CPP2 or a CPP3.