Using IR filters

[B&Jdude]

I recently bought a batch of filters which included some Infra Red filters. The two IR filters were an R72 (720nm, similar to an 89B?) and an R72 (760nm, 88A?) and I would like to try them out.

My questions are what are the best currently available films to use with these filters to make those "snow-covered moonlight" type shots? What tricks are there to come up with the camera shutter speed and aperture settings to use? :confused:

Smiff

 

[Steve Smith]

These are the right type for Ilford's SFX. I don't know about any other IR film though.


Steve.

 

[keithwms]

I use rollei IR and a #87 with ~EV+12 compensation (=metered value plus 12 stops!), in good spring light. The new Rollei superpan looks promising for this combo as well, though I imagine that the compensation may be a few stops less. With an rm72 I typically need ~EV+9 or so with this film.

Tricks? Well, for first time use of a particular film/filter combo, the only reliable trick is to bracket like nuts! And I don't mean bracket +/- 1 stop! I mean bracket +/-3 stops or even more.

 

[thefizz]

An R72 filter will work fine on the Efke IR film and on both of Rollei's IR and Superpan films.

 

[B&Jdude]

Thanks, gang. I'll get some of the films recommended, bracket the hell out of it, and take copious notes to build some experience and confidence in working with IR.

Steve, I'm about ready to order some more of those 120 memo holders . . . I've been sticking them on everything in sight, including Kodak Panorams and old Brownie boxes, Omega Rapids, Zenobias, Super Ikontas, old-style Hassy backs, and anything else within reach!

EuGene Smith
(no relation to any REAL photographer similarly named)

 

[Shmoo]

I've used the Rollei IR with an 89B. I meter at ISO 3 and shoot, and bracket to taste.

 

[Steve Smith]

Steve, I'm about ready to order some more of those 120 memo holders . . . I've been sticking them on everything in sight, including Kodak Panorams and old Brownie boxes, Omega Rapids, Zenobias, Super Ikontas, old-style Hassy backs, and anything else within reach!

I had forgotten about those. I think four other people want some as well.
Wait until I'm back at work after christmas and I will see to it.


Steve.

 

[Jason Mekeel]

The truth is it doesn't really matter which film you choose because you already chose the best filtration. (R72)
Rollei is sharper but not as, "infrared-ie."
Efke is softer but very, "infrared-ie."
Ilford SFX works well with the Hoya R72 and seems to be more like Rollei than Efke.

The above information is only in regards to a 720nm filter.
I used a 750nm filter with Rollei and it took 8 to 15 second exposures at F8 to barely pull an image.

Jason Mekeel

 

[B&Jdude]

Thanks, Jason, for the info. I think I have a few rolls of Rollei and Efke in the freezer, so I'll thaw 'em and see what I can do with them. Since I am in the learning mode, I'll do some industrial grade bracketing, as suggested above by Keith.

As for the R76/88A (which I accidently typed in as an R72 in the OP at top), it doesn't appear to be much of a choice from the above posts, except maybe for very long exposures like Keith had to do with the #87 (is that about equivalent to an R80?).

I guess I need to pull the charts out on any other films that I test to see where their curve takes a dive as it reaches the IR region, then select my test filter for each type film based on those curves.

At what point (680 nm? 700 nm? 720 nm? etc.) do your nice bright days take on the black sky & white grass appearance moon-lit appearance?

EuGene

 

[thefizz]

In my experience a #29 red filter or darker will produce IR effects with the Efke film. A 665nm to 715nm filter works for the Roillei film and 695nm to 715nm for SFX.

Your R72 (89B) will work on all three films.

 

[keithwms]

EuGene, the amount of IR light reaching the ground is quite variable. If you want that white snowy look, the best time of year to get it is in the spring when the foliage is fresh. I've taken a few IR landscape shots in winter and the results was quite dull- only the evergreens gave the white reflection that I think you're after.

My point being: even if you nail the exposure and have the right filter and the right time of day etc., you're probably not going to get nearly as much Wood as you would in spring. (Assuming that you are shooting on my side of the equator!)

When you say moonlight effect, I assume that you are referring to deep shadows and fast highlight transitions... in other words less midtones than usual. To achieve this, you might also consider b&w slide or even a colour slide to b&w conversion. Just a thought. I have seen contrast somewhat evoking moonlight from astia enlarged to tmax and then printed normally. If you want to use straight b&w process then you'd want a high contrast index neg printed to a moderately high grade paper. I am thinking of copy film at grade 3+ or such.

Anyway, back to IR. To assess how much Wood effect you will get, you have to think of no less than four things:

(1) film sensitivity curve
(2) filter cutoff
(3) IR component reaching the ground
(4) chlorophyll content in the foliage

 

[Chazzy]

Do any of the major filter makers make an infrared filter in Series VI?

 

[Jason Mekeel]

B&JDude:

You wanna know what really makes a blue sky black? It isn't so much the filter, but rather how clear of a day it is, or what elevation you're at. (having said that, let me also state that some sort of filtration is required for infrared photography: red #25, Red #29, Hoya R72, etc...)

If it is a super clear day, and the winds came in the day before and cleared out all the smog/dust in the air, like that other guy said, you can get a nearly black sky with a normal red #25 filter.

Another tip is to: try not to shoot directly across to the horizon line but rather try to point the camera upwards so you get that bluer sky. when you shoot across a landscape, you're shooting through all that dust and atmosphere.

Another tip: a pol. filter makes a blue sky bluer and that is what you want. a red #25 + pol. is a great combo. a pol + an IR filter might work too, although I have never tried it, although I should.

Another tip: skies are bluer at high elevations. A sky at 10,000 feet is going to be a much darker blue than a sky at sea level.

Jason Mekeel

 

[keithwms]

Charles, you can buy IR wratten material....

 

[B&Jdude]

Thanks Keith & Jason for the additional tips. I was planning ondoing my serious IR shooting in the Spring when the foliage is bright green, so what I will be doing in the interim is practicing . . . getting a feel for how the different films behave at various EV levels. Also, I had thought of using a polarizer with the IR filters to darken the sky, so I'll also accumulate some notes on filter factor corrections when shooting with/without the polarizer.

Smiff

 

[keithwms]

I'd not use a polarizer if I were you. The sky will drop plenny dark without one. Anyway, just experiment and enjoy! Reproducing what everybody else does is a mere exercise; finding your own way is something worth doing.

 

[B&Jdude]

Gosh, although I have been taking photographs for almost 50 years (having begun with a B&J Watson 4x5 press camera that I bought at age 13 with my earnings as a shoe shine boy) everything I have ever done is flying by the seat of my pants experimentation. Since I had never had a photography or art class of any type, I am continuing to learn by trial and error (mostly the latter).

I entered some pix in the first photo show & contest I have ever seen, our county fair . . . 8 of my 25 entries won blue ribbons & won best of show in 2 of the 4 divisions (each division had 4 to 11 categories). I guess somebody gave me credit for doing something right, but unfortunately they didn't provide comments, so I don't know what it was that the judges liked about the pix.

Anyhoo, I put some of the pix on FLICKR (haven't a clue how I did that) at:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/26713735@N02/3120761376/in/set-72157611457556456/

The B&W Panoramic won B of S in the B&W Division. I didn't put the other B of S winner on there (it won in the County Fair Division) as I couldn't find where I had put it. These pictures were scanned onto a CD at WalMart and the color panoramic was just a picture that I included (it was not entered in the fair contest) on the CD to make a print for my mother.

Most of the pictures were taken with a Minolta SRT 101. The exceptions were the B&W panoramic which was taken on a $8.99 Plastic no-name "Lomo" type panoramic camera, the sapling on the cliff face taken with a Mamiya M645, and the old fisherman in the early morning fog taken with a Daiichi Zenobia 120 folder.

I have signed up for the NYI photography correspondence course . . . not the best way to learn about photography, but the only way I ever will with my limited resources and the fact I live so far out in the boonies that the nearest school offering any photography or art is 40 miles away.

Golly, I need to close this rambling epistle . . . Hell, the subject was IR photography, wasn't it? Scotty, beam me back to the earth!

Smiff

 

[keithwms]

Well!

 

[thefizz]

Interesting to note that Simon Marsden uses a polarizer and 25 red filter with HIE.

 

[Alexander Ghaffari]

I had forgotten about those. I think four other people want some as well.
Wait until I'm back at work after christmas and I will see to it.


Steve.

Thank you Steve. I was one of the four. : ) Merry Christmas.

-Alexander