Using Flash on an HB 500 c/m

bags27

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There are few things in photography as mysterious to me as using a flash. I'm appealing (begging, beseeching) for a very quick and simple fix to using flash.

I'm trying to shoot flash with a 500 c/m, a 120 CF macro, and my 45 deg. prism (it has a battery and light meter).

From digital days long ago, I have a ring flash (the dental kind) whose 67mm ring won't quite play nicely with the Bay 60. No matter. I guess I'm trying to get my ridiculously overpriced Leica SF 40 to work with it. Either the ring flash or the Leica is pretty much the same principle, I suppose.

What procedures, cables, etc. do I need for on camera flash, and perhaps, for something later, what for off camera flash? Eternally grateful for cheapest, simplest fixes first. I'll build gradually toward the more complicated.
 

MattKing

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Are you using the ring flash for moderately close-up work, or are you trying to employ it more generally?
 
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bags27

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MattKing said:
Are you using the ring flash for moderately close-up work, or are you trying to employ it more generally?
Click to expand...

Thanks, Matt. It'd be for close-up work with the macro (and probably some extension tubes). But since it has a lot of bells and whistles that I'd have to relearn how to use, I'm more interested in getting started with the Leica flash.

And BTW, I use a spot meter with the Blad, but don't own a meter that measures flash. So, I'd ballpark it. I also have a 907x 50c that I could put on the film Blad for trial-and-error and establish flash strength that way I suppose.
 

MattKing

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Do you have a separate flash meter?
 

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bags27 said:
No, you may have missed the above. Thanks so very much for responding.
Click to expand...

Nope - some people have a hand-held meter that has a flash meter function built in, and some don't. For setting up this sort of thing, a flash meter is very handy.
Otherwise, you may need to waste some film to do some tests.
 
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bags27

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MattKing said:
Nope - some people have a hand-held meter that has a flash meter function built in, and some don't. For setting up this sort of thing, a flash meter is very handy.
Otherwise, you may need to waste some film to do some tests.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Matt. I can get one.

But still interested in exactly how the whole system works, since my earlier experience was strictly TTL with digital.

Is it "just" connecting the cord linked below to the lens's PC flash terminal and to the flash? Will that fire the flash? Maybe this will only "fit" on the old Metz flash? Neither my Leica nor my ring flash has a place for a cable to attach. Do I need to buy some sort of hot flash attachment (for the cable) that attaches to the flash?

Thanks!!!

Pardon Our Interruption...

www.ebay.com
 
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btaylor

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It sounds like you’re trying to get the Hasselblad to fire a flash that has a hotshoe to trigger it, yes? I have a few of those adapters, pc connection to the lens on one end, hotshoe on the other with a 1/4 female hole in the bottom to attach it to something. B&H, Adorama, Freestyle any of them should have it. If you can set your digi cam on full manual you should be able to test the exposure without a flash meter. I recently got into flash a bit and found my Sekonic had flash measuring functions, made life pretty easy as I pretty much nailed exposure.
 

BrianShaw

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The physical connection is really a simpler problem than you might imagine. Forget about the ringflash and macro, for a while. Start with the basics first.

To use the equipment you have with the flash you will need to buy one or two things: synch cord (PC to whatever-your-flash-needs) and some way of holding the flash, like a flash handle or light stand. If you want to use the Leica flash the cord you'll need is male PC to hotshoe.

Like this:

If you need more length on the synch cord you can also get two things, a pc male to pc male synch cord of whatever length you need and a hot shoe adapter like this:




To use your Leica strobe it will have to be set on manual, which means you either calculate the settings based on Guide Number and Distance or get a flash meter. The flash manual says very little but at least lists Guide Numbers for each of hte power settings..
If your Hasselbald lens is a C-lens, then set to X; If CF than that it will be X only so nothing more to think about.

Caveat: I'm using B&H only because it is easy source of examples. I don't necessarily endorse them but have had good business dealing with them in the past.
 
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bags27

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Thank you so very much, BTaylor and Brian! This is exactly the roadmap I needed.

Can I just ask you, Brian, why, if I wanted more length on the synch cord I would also need a hot shoe adapter? And also, there are a number of adapters on that page: which would you recommend?

Again, thanks, both!
 

BrianShaw

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Only because the hotshoe adapters with the attchd synch cords tend to be short. For on-camera use or with a caemra-attached flash handle they are fine. For off-camera use, additional length may be necessary. The other option, in that case, would be a sych cord extender - male PC to female PC.
 

BrianShaw

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If you really want to make flash a bit easier, and don't mind spending a bit more money... buy a flash with built-in auto-exposure. For decades I used Vivitar 283/285 with my Hsselblad. Not long ago need to replace them and bought a Nikon SB-16. That I can use in manual or auto-exposure mode with the Hasselblad and other cameras, and can also use TTL with a Nikon F3. For me, that one flash (and both feet) meets all of my small- and medium-format neeeds so is very cost-effective for the cameras I use.
 

btaylor

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I bought my Vivitar 283 new over 40 years ago and used it just last month on a project, where it worked perfectly as daylight on-camera fill flash with my RZ67 (which also has a leaf shutter like your Hasselblad, so no worries and flash sync shutter speeds).
I wanted the accessory remote flash sensor cord and ended up buying a complete second 283 unit with all the accessories to acquire the cord - I think I paid $15 (!) for everything in new condition on eBay. Works perfectly for my digicam as well, paired with a Wein SafeSync.
 
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bags27

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Thanks so much both!

I bought the SB-16 for a very good price, and it included an AS-8 Foot and sc-14 cord...whatever they are! I guess I still need the stuff you indicated from B&H?

thanks again so very much.

​

 

MattKing

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As I think you now realize, my answers were more about the "procedures" part of your question that the "cable" part of your question.
I second the advice about a flash with built in auto-exposure - e.g. a Vivitar 283. There used to be a myriad of similar competing models.
Sometimes you will see them referenced as thyristor flashes. That isn't strictly accurate - the thyristor is actually just a way to make an auto flash much more efficient - but that can help you find them.
As to how to connect a camera and a flash, there are lots of cabling options, some of which are particular to particular flashes.
One very flexible option involves remote triggers, plus a cable to connect the transmitter to the camera.
 
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bags27

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I see that now, Matt. I very much appreciate those points as well. I think for now, it's cables for an attached or extended flash. But for a flash (or flashes) off camera, I'd go with a remote trigger. Thanks!
 

BrianShaw

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@bags27 Here's the absolute minimum you need to connect your flashes to your Hasselblad. Until you say more about what you want to do (other than to see how they work together) it's a bit of a challenge to say too much more without seeming confusing... which we collectively may already have done.

To electrically connect your Leica flash to Hasselblad: PC male to hotshoe synch cord. Plug them together. Set flash to manual-mode and calculate expsoure based on Guide Number per the flash manual.


To electrically connect your Nikon SB-16 to Hasselblad: PC male to PC male sych cord. Plug them together. Set flash to auto mode based on distance to subject. This is your best option, based on your description of "auto only" prior experience. Alternatively, set flash to manual-mode and calculate eposure based on Guide Number per the flash manual.


What you need to figure out: How you are physically connect the flash to the camera - a flash handle. Unfortunately, this is where you might into additional complication. The Leica strobe has a standard foot, which will connect to most flash handles. The Nikon strobe that you have has a proprietery foot for the F3 (AS-8). There is another foot, AS-9 or standard, for the SB-16 to fit other camera. That is what you could use to make this a more tractable problem. For example:

Nikon AS-9 TTL Hot Shoe Adapter for Nikon Speedlight SB-16 Flash Unit Untested | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Nikon AS-9 TTL Hot Shoe Adapter for Nikon Speedlight SB-16 Flash Unit Untested at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com

Flash handles are a very personal item so recommending one is difficult. My best solution was shopping ebay as there are more listed there than there are being offered new at places like B&H. The brand I prefere is "stroboframe". Try searchin gon that term and see what looks like a good solution, but bear i nmind that you won't find a perfect match for that Nikon-proprietary foot.
 
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bags27

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Incredibly helpful, Brian! What a tremendous roadmap to this. Much appreciated!!
 
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bags27

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Yes, on this I was struggling a bit, because the bracket also has to allow me to attach the camera to a tripod. And I'd prefer not removing my Hasselblad plate from the camera. So maybe one of those rigs that just extends from the prism's coldshote upward?
 

BrianShaw

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There is no need to remove the Hasselblad plate to use a flash handle; the flash handles attach to the camera via the tripod mount socket. Sopme flash handles may have tripod mount capabaility but most I've seen are oriented toward hand-held use.

Now that you've added new information that you have a Hasselblad prism with a cold shoe, and that tripod mounting camera is important to you... the options mentioned above are still, and even moreso, the simple solutions to get you going with general-purpose flash photography. Not having a separate flash handle is one less thing to fuss about in your initial learning experiences with this type of configuration.

At some point, someone will comment on red-eye potential from the on-camera flash. They would not be incorrect but another added complexity to consider. This is when a flash handle can be very useful. Perhaps you already know about that from your digital flash experience; IDK.
 
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bags27

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Thanks so much, Brian. Yes, starting out this way, just to get back into flash a bit seems right. I'll probably end up with a box of loose parts eventually, but that's the nature of tinkering.... So very much appreciated!!
 

jeffreyg

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I have a Sunpak auto DX 12R that I used for a number of years with a Nikon F100 and 105macro lens It can work with a hotshot or cable. When I originally bought it I got the size that would also fit my HB. As I recall I also purchased the module that would let it work with the HB with a cable. I haven’t used it for several years so I would have to look for the parts and instructions. Some internet searching can help.


 

reddesert

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As others said, the SB-16 is an unusual flash because it could have either the regular (ISO) foot, or the special foot that fits over the F3 rewind knob (Each of the F, F2, F3 had an unusual flash coupler arrangement due to the exchangeable prisms).

The easiest way to do flash exposure without a flash meter or TTL is the way most people did it before TTL, which is to get a flash that has one or more "A" modes. You set the flash on "A" and, given the ISO, read the aperture off the flash for the "A" mode. For example, it says f/8, so you set f/8 on the camera, connect the PC output of the camera/lens to the flash, and the flash photocell reads the light reflected from the subject and cuts off the output when it thinks the exposure is complete. The SB-16 will do this, but so will the Vivitar 283, 285, Nikon SB-24,25,26,28, etc. These are all capable flashes that can be picked up for near nothing because they aren't TTL compatible with modern cameras.

The one thing to watch out for is that you want to do macro, and most A modes have a minimum flash-to-subject distance as well as a maximum. If you tripod mount the camera, and the min distance is say 3 feet, you can hold the flash up 3 feet away from the subject, using a pc cord to move the flash off camera. Or use the bounce feature of the flash to bounce light off a reflector. You'll generally get nicer lighting with off camera or indirect flash anyway. For more information about off camera flash and not using TTL, try reading the Strobist blog.
 
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