Using fish tank chlorine remover as fixer

nascarfann · Jul 30, 2022

So for a while I have wanted to do a MacGyver style challenge where I develop photographic paper or film using only supplies from a department store. My plan is to make a basic Caffenol solution for development; this is easy, my greatest challenge so far has been the fixer. I spent hours researching using salt as a fixer, and even considered shampoo. My latest development in this project is that I found that fish tank chlorine remover contains Sodium Thiosulfate, the main ingredient in a photographic fixer. I picked up a bottle of it, and am ready to do some experimentation. Any advice? How much should I dilute this stuff? How should I go about testing to make sure the photos are fixed correctly?

pentaxuser · Jul 30, 2022

It might be helpful if you were to say exactly what it contains and in what quantities.

Thanks

oentaxuser

Alan Johnson · Jul 30, 2022

Most fish tank chlorine removers don't seem to have safety data sheets approximating their main chemical content so it will not be known how this varies between brands. I did find one, not that mentioned by the OP, which has about as much sodium thiosulfate as TF-2 fixer.
So I suggest trying the OP brand in concentrated form and comparing the clearing time with that of any well known recognized photographic film fixer. The result will only apply to that brand and not, AFAIK, to fish tank chlorine reducers in general.

nascarfann · Jul 30, 2022

pentaxuser said:
It might be helpful if you were to say exactly what it contains and in what quantities.

Thanks

oentaxuser

It is a liquid solution. Sodium Thiosulfate is the first ingredient, followed by chelating compounds (metal removers) and minerals. It does not say the exact qualities.

faberryman · Jul 30, 2022

Google says Tetra Chlorine Remover contains sodium thiosulfate, chelating compounds, and minerals. No idea how much of what. Probably cheaper to get chlorine remover from a pool or pond store. Here is the SDS for The Pond Guy Chlorine Remover:

https://www.thepondguy.com/content/pdp/docs/the-pond-guy-chlorine-remover-sds.pdf

My vote goes for a five liter jug of Ilford Hypam from B&H. Add a roll of film to the order and you get free shipping, which means you get the roll of film free.

I don't understand the attraction to using stuff from the grocery store to process film and prints, but to each his own.

Old_Dick · Jul 30, 2022

How about cost, compared to regular fixer?

pentaxuser · Jul 30, 2022

faberryman said:
Google says Tetra Chlorine Remover contains sodium thiosulfate, chelating compounds, and minerals. No idea how much of what. Probably cheaper to get chlorine remover from a pool or pond store.

Having watched a couple of videos about chlorine removal from fish tanks, both make the point that the cheaper way is to buy just sodium thiosulphate. So if its cheaper than the the likes of the Tetra product and there is no way of knowing what else is in such products that may or may not be suitable for film and paper fixing then it would look as if the likes of the Tetra product only has the slight benefit of being already in liquid form

If it's simply a challenge and cost plus some unknowns such as suitability are irrelevant then go ahead. Try a film leader first and see how it performs

Even if it works I am not sure how you check if the fix is permanent over the long term which might be a matter of months or years

Clearly you need to be able to translate the miniscule amount of Tetra needed for a fish tank into what is needed for film and paper so unless you can find out the concentrated quantity of "hypo" in the Tetra bottle I have no idea how you work out how much of the Tetra bottle you need for film or paper

Best of luck

pentaxuser

faberryman · Jul 30, 2022

pentaxuser said:
Clearly you need to be able to translate the miniscule amount of Tetra needed for a fish tank into what is needed for film and paper so unless you can find out the concentrated quantity of "hypo" in the Tetra bottle I have no idea how you work out how much of the Tetra bottle you need for film or paper.

I think you probably have to use at least a couple of bottles of the Tetra stuff because I am pretty sure a fish wouldn't last too long in a tank or tray of ordinary fixer.

Nicholas Lindan · Jul 30, 2022

Thiosulfate crystals are also available in the pool supplies section - again sold as a chlorine remover. You can also find sodium sulfate and sodium carbonate as pool pH adjusters.

A tiny drop of diswashing liquid in a quart of water makes a decent photo-flo stand-in.

jtk · Jul 30, 2022

A generic photo expert (my boss of the time) told me he used exhaust gas, bubbled through water, to fix film he shot as a PJ in Burma before he was captured by the Japanese. Could that really have worked?

mshchem · Jul 30, 2022

Personally, I think you're nuts! I should know, I'm a grade A loony! I would buy a couple pounds of sodium thiosulfate-pentahydrate crystals off Ebay, it's super cheap, same stuff as fish store, but cheaper.
I love your bold experimentation!
Stay Well! Carry on!!

mshchem · Jul 30, 2022

Nicholas Lindan said:
Thiosulfate crystals are also available in the pool supplies section - again sold as a chlorine remover. You can also find sodium sulfate and sodium carbonate as pool pH adjusters.

A tiny drop of diswashing liquid in a quart of water makes a decent photo-flo stand-in.

I have been gifted old bottles of photoflo and selenium toner that have Kmart price stickers on the bottles. OP just needs a time machine, this stuff was everywhere.

Nicholas Lindan · Jul 30, 2022

mshchem said:
I have been gifted old bottles of photoflo and selenium toner that have Kmart price stickers on the bottles. OP just needs a time machine, this stuff was everywhere.

Sears carried a full line of darkroom supplies in their stores along with an impressive range of cameras: https://therobbcollections.blogspot.com/2018/01/extremely-rare-sears-camera-catalogs.html

Montgomery Ward also had a huge photography department, I got my first 'real' camera from Wards - an Agra Solina (Silette).

koraks · Jul 30, 2022

Nicholas Lindan said:
Thiosulfate crystals are also available in the pool supplies section - again sold as a chlorine remover. You can also find sodium sulfate and sodium carbonate as pool pH adjusters.

A tiny drop of diswashing liquid in a quart of water makes a decent photo-flo stand-in.

Indeed, and there's so much more.

Drain cleaner pellets are usually sodium hydroxide. Very useful for pH increase and various other applications. In the US at least I understand that tree root killer is copper sulfate. Battery acid is sulfuric acid. Vitamin C and citric acid are in the food aisles of many supermarkets. Sodium carbonate can be found in the cleaning section, along with household vinegar (stop bath). If you're lucky, you can find fertilizer that consists of just ammonium thiosulfate, and farmers apparently use propylene glycol to stimulate milk production in cows, making it probably the cheapest source of glycol if you don't mind buying a decent quantity. And the list goes on and on. The only time I had something that didn't work 100% was the descaling agent I picked up in a local store because it contained sulfuric acid; it did make a functional reversal bleach with dichromate, but the stain couldn't be cleared even with sulfite.

pentaxuser · Jul 30, 2022

What I might be prepared to pay a small premium for would be a highly concentrated rapid fixer in liquid form such that, say, 500ml was the equivalent of 5L but I fear that concentrated liquid chlorine remover can be a small amount for 10s if not 100s of gallons of fish tank water but would not be small for the amounts required for film and paper

pentaxuser

gone · Jul 30, 2022

Keep us posted, this is very interesting. Fixer has always been the one thing you couldn't DIY at home unless you bought the ingredients and mixed it up yourself. There's a lot bigger chance of a pet store/Home Depot/Target being nearby than there is of finding a photo outlet. I'd rather bike 15 minutes and pick this up vs having to pay to have fixer shipped.

Rayt · Jul 30, 2022

For sake of not wasting film can you pour some fixer into your fish tank to see how much you need to remove the chlorine? Rapid fixer if possible.

Don_ih · Jul 30, 2022

momus said:
Fixer has always been the one thing you couldn't DIY at home

But you can! Just boil sodium hydroxide and sulphur in water. Doesn't that sound fun?

alanrockwood · Jul 30, 2022

Don Heisz said:
But you can! Just boil sodium hydroxide and sulphur in water. Doesn't that sound fun?

Interesting idea. However that method of producing sodium sulfite also produce sodium sulfide (N2S). I am not sure if sulfide is a good ingredient to have in fixer. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

Don_ih · Jul 30, 2022

alanrockwood said:
I am not sure if sulfide is a good ingredient to have in fixer.

There would be one way to find out... It might sepia tone while it fixes.... Or just wreck the image.

warden · Jul 30, 2022

christislord said:
So for a while I have wanted to do a MacGyver style challenge where I develop photographic paper or film using only supplies from a department store. My plan is to make a basic Caffenol solution for development; this is easy, my greatest challenge so far has been the fixer. I spent hours researching using salt as a fixer, and even considered shampoo. My latest development in this project is that I found that fish tank chlorine remover contains Sodium Thiosulfate, the main ingredient in a photographic fixer. I picked up a bottle of it, and am ready to do some experimentation. Any advice? How much should I dilute this stuff? How should I go about testing to make sure the photos are fixed correctly?

This is the kind of pointless experimentation I can get behind. Kudos and have fun!

mshchem · Jul 30, 2022

Nicholas Lindan said:
Sears carried a full line of darkroom supplies in their stores along with an impressive range of cameras: https://therobbcollections.blogspot.com/2018/01/extremely-rare-sears-camera-catalogs.html

Montgomery Ward also had a huge photography department, I got my first 'real' camera from Wards - an Agra Solina (Silette).

Those are great catalogs. I remember waiting for the Christmas toy catalog. I would circle things with a red pencil, Ha

bdial · Jul 30, 2022

The way to test it would be to make a silver test solution with selenium toner.
But, as others have mentioned, using it instead of a straight forward sodium thiosulfate or ammonium thiosulfate fix seem dubious because of the additional unknown ingredients.

Roger Thoms · Jul 31, 2022

faberryman said:
Google says Tetra Chlorine Remover contains sodium thiosulfate, chelating compounds, and minerals. No idea how much of what. Probably cheaper to get chlorine remover from a pool or pond store. Here is the SDS for The Pond Guy Chlorine Remover:

https://www.thepondguy.com/content/pdp/docs/the-pond-guy-chlorine-remover-sds.pdf

My vote goes for a five liter jug of Ilford Hypam from B&H. Add a roll of film to the order and you get free shipping, which means you get the roll of film free.

I don't understand the attraction to using stuff from the grocery store to process film and prints, but to each his own.

I understand the attraction. In a little different challenge while spending time with my parents in Tucson Arizona, I got the wild idea to set up a temp darkroom in my parents laundry to develop and contact print 8x10 b&w film. I had brought my 8x10 with me so I was go to go with the camera and film. Lucky I could buy paper and chemistry at a local camera shop. I found welding rod storage tubes at a industrial supply house for developing the film, think BTZS tubes. Trays and a light came from Home Depot, found a used timer, a contact frame and a set of contrast filters at a different camera store. Made a filter tray out of cardboard and tape for the light and used black trash bags to black out the wind. So in about a day and a half I rounded ever I needed. I then photographed my parents and did nice 8x10 portraits contact print for them. The whole thing whole thing was totally enjoyable for myself and parents enjoyed the portrait session and getting prints right away.

The point of my challenge was to buy everything in Tucson. So I’d say if you’re enjoying the challenge of buying everything in a department store then go for it.

Roger

eli griggs · Jul 31, 2022

Thiosulfate crystals are plentiful online, I get mine from Amazon in ten pound sacks, but I did find it in a pool supply, 100 grams, for about $10 US, years ago when I decided hypo was a good to have on hand substitute for the regular tf4 fix I like to use.

Buy the stuff in bulk, you'll use a lot of it, use distilled water (Walmart stuff is just fine) for solutions and, keep it well bottled in tight mason jars in the darkroom, out of daylight.

If you use this stuff, mix fresh for each days need, long storage is no really an option.

If you're unsure about the term "hypo" do some reading as two different chemicals/processes are involved

Using fish tank chlorine remover as fixer

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Using fish tank chlorine remover as fixer

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