Using Dektol undiluted?

1kgcoffee · Sep 7, 2017

I mixed up 4L of dektol and have been using it stock. Did not realize that it needed to be diluted. I need this amount for my very large trays (16x20)

Suppose I dilute it to 8L after having run about 30 sheets of 11x14 RC through it. Will this reduce its shelf life? And how much longer can I reasonably use this solution? It's been in solution for less than two weeks.

removed account4 · Sep 7, 2017

yeah, once you dilute something you weaken its life.
if you like long shelf life, you should look into ansco 130
the photographer's formulary sells it as "formulary 130"
it offers similar images to dektol, but it can last a long long time
some say 30 days in an open tray !
i've used it pitch black like coca cola and it worked beautifully.
if you buy bulk chemicals, its pretty much the same stuff as dektol ( D72)
sodium sulfite, HQ, KBr, sodium carbonate, metol ... and for a130 you add glycin
and ansco130 lasts for over a year in a stock solution ... worth its weight in gold ..

Punker · Sep 7, 2017

I've had some Dektol stock mixed up to do continuous tone lith film developing and it's been fine in a translucent gallon jug for 5 months. However, I dilute it to 1+30 so a little goes a long way in my application and I might not notice it going off as badly as someone printing with it might.

darkroommike · Sep 8, 2017

It's OK to use Dektol stock if your plan is to "re-jug" it after a session and use it again. If you dilute the stock solution do not save it for another session, the developer, diluted, has a lower capacity per liter of working strength solution an is usually not worth the effort to put it back in the jug. I prefer to dilute 1+2 and use for only a single session. However, if I am going back in the darkroom the next day I will float an identical tray on top of my developer tray as a floating lid and get back to it. The day old developer is usually used for contact sheets and work prints on RC paper or other less critical work.

RalphLambrecht · Sep 9, 2017

1kgcoffee said:
I mixed up 4L of dektol and have been using it stock. Did not realize that it needed to be diluted. I need this amount for my very large trays (16x20)

Suppose I dilute it to 8L after having run about 30 sheets of 11x14 RC through it. Will this reduce its shelf life? And how much longer can I reasonably use this solution? It's been in solution for less than two weeks.

You can use it until you see the blacks turning out too weak;that's a clear sign of exhaustion.prepare some more just to be on the safe side.

Gerald C Koch · Sep 9, 2017

1kgcoffee said:
I mixed up 4L of dektol and have been using it stock. Did not realize that it needed to be diluted. I need this amount for my very large trays (16x20)

Suppose I dilute it to 8L after having run about 30 sheets of 11x14 RC through it. Will this reduce its shelf life? And how much longer can I reasonably use this solution? It's been in solution for less than two weeks.

I find it rather disturbing that someone jumped into print making without reading literature on the process. As I have said before and will say again read a good book on print making. Then you will know the correct dilution for Dektol. If money is a concern there are many used copies available on Amazon, etc.

removed account4 · Sep 9, 2017

hi gerald

some great results have been obtained by making mistakes ..
they might not be repeatable sometimes, but still there is potential for good-stuff.

i used a developer for 10+ years that wasn't advertised or recommended to be used for film.
and it worked out great. i also mix developer without a scale or measuring the ingredients and it works fine.
if the OP is getting the results that work for him/her, I'm not sure what the problem is... its not like what the OP is doing poses
a danger to him/her or anything besides his/her wallet since dilute you get that much more use out of the developer ---

that said, i see where you are coming from

removedacct1 · Sep 9, 2017

Dektol is intended to be used diluted 1:2 and once diluted, it has a "shelf life" of no more than about 24 hours. There are no advantages to using it undiluted. All you are doing is throwing away money if you use the stock solution.

dhkirby · Sep 9, 2017

I use stock and re-jug all the time. It doesn't "need" to be diluted.

I would just keep using it the way you are, re-jugging it after the session's done, until, like Ralph said, the blacks are weak.

Happy printing.

David A. Goldfarb · Sep 9, 2017

I think it's great that people are jumping into print making, and if they make some mistakes, then they'll be in a position to do some research and read in a more focused and directed way. Live and learn. As darkroom mistakes go, this is a small one. You might find your development times really short or contrast higher than you want, printing in Dektol stock. Now you know how to get more contrast, if you can't get enough through filtration with MG paper and Dektol 1:2. Follow Ralph Lambrecht's advice above, if it's giving you results you can live with for now, and when it's exhausted, try it at the recommended dilution. What's the worst that could happen? Wasting a gallon of developer, a box of paper, and a couple of days printing time? Not the end of the world and an opportunity to learn something.

Arklatexian · Sep 9, 2017

Gerald C Koch said:
I find it rather disturbing that someone jumped into print making without reading literature on the process. As I have said before and will say again read a good book on print making. Then you will know the correct dilution for Dektol. If money is a concern there are many used copies available on Amazon, etc.

Gerald, I disagree with you!. I find it VERY disturbing that people jump into any knowledgeable subject without reading every book and/or article that a person can get their hands on, on the subject. However there seem to be people in this group as in others who have the "modern" idea that reading is a thing of the past..Well you might could also say that film photography, to some people, is a thing of the past so why not read some of the old stuff to learn how to make good up-to-date pictures?.......Regards!.

removed account4 · Sep 9, 2017

you guys are funny
its just dektol, and photo paper
its not like the OP is making something
harmful or doing something INSANE because
he/she isn't diluting the developer ..
if it didnt' work the OP wouldn't be doing it ( and getting good results )
and wondering what the capacity was ..
i have used a fingernail file as a screwdriver before (both slot and philips head )
a credit card to open a door, a few wires to start a car with a bad ignition-switch
waxed paper as ground glass, eyeballs to measure ingredients ( both in the darkroom at at the stove )
and a t-shirt over my back or a jacket over my head as a dark cloth when i had none ...
i somehow survived ...

right on mr goldfarb !

RalphLambrecht · Sep 10, 2017

jnanian said:
yeah, once you dilute something you weaken its life.
if you like long shelf life, you should look into ansco 130
the photographer's formulary sells it as "formulary 130"
it offers similar images to dektol, but it can last a long long time
some say 30 days in an open tray !
i've used it pitch black like coca cola and it worked beautifully.
if you buy bulk chemicals, its pretty much the same stuff as dektol ( D72)
sodium sulfite, HQ, KBr, sodium carbonate, metol ... and for a130 you add glycin
and ansco130 lasts for over a year in a stock solution ... worth its weight in gold ..

I have to politely disagree. While experimenting with different developers is fun and a learning opportunity, it is better to stick with one and print the heck out of it to learn how it responds too all variations.I use Dektol1+0 for rich blacks and strong contrast,1+2 for normal use and1+4 for paper negatives. It all works for the intended outcome. When exhausted the prints get weak, muddy or lose sparkle.Then, it's time to make some fresh.It's simple really Use it until it doesn't do what you want anymore. no need to monitor print numbers. If you want to know more about this, get a copy of Dr. Henry's book 'B&W processing' He tested all sorts of variations and published the results But, don't turn into a testing photographer, become a creating photographer, Otherwise, You're waisting more than money and time.

removed account4 · Sep 10, 2017

couldn't agree more with you ralph, I'm not a developer of the day type
i dont' switch developers often or suggest others do either
i could probably count the developers i have used in the past 30+ years on one hand ...
IDK, the OP seemed to be asking shelf life/capacity questions
and seeing A130 has an enormous shelf life as a stock solution
and in a tray ... and it is dektol's 1st cousin once removed ...
i switched from ansco130 to dektol because of cost, i thought it was
cheaper in the long run to make d72 from scratch(or use dektol from a bag), and while their results
are pretty much indisguinshable (to me at least, whether it is for film or prints) i am now thinking
of going back because to ansco130 i really didn't save much since D72's shelf life / capacity is minor league
compared to the other ... and i love watching glycin fizz when you add it to the concoction

OP if i misread your question please disregard my post/s

Julie McLeod · Sep 10, 2017

Gerald C Koch said:
I find it rather disturbing that someone jumped into print making without reading literature on the process. As I have said before and will say again read a good book on print making. Then you will know the correct dilution for Dektol. If money is a concern there are many used copies available on Amazon, etc.

oldtimermetoo said:
Gerald, I disagree with you!. I find it VERY disturbing that people jump into any knowledgeable subject without reading every book and/or article that a person can get their hands on, on the subject. However there seem to be people in this group as in others who have the "modern" idea that reading is a thing of the past..Well you might could also say that film photography, to some people, is a thing of the past so why not read some of the old stuff to learn how to make good up-to-date pictures?.......Regards!.

I would like to explain what these replies sound like to me, an inexperienced darkroom user. These replies seem to be suggesting that members shouldn't ask questions until they've thoroughly educated themselves. That seems totally contrary to the point of the forum...doesn't this place exist to share knowledge and encourage the use of film by more people? I don't see how having knowledgeable members criticize the inexperienced for their lack of knowledge supports that goal at all.

Gerald C Koch · Sep 13, 2017

Julie McLeod said:
I would like to explain what these replies sound like to me, an inexperienced darkroom user. These replies seem to be suggesting that members shouldn't ask questions until they've thoroughly educated themselves. That seems totally contrary to the point of the forum...doesn't this place exist to share knowledge and encourage the use of film by more people? I don't see how having knowledgeable members criticize the inexperienced for their lack of knowledge supports that goal at all.

No, my point was that asking the particular question would be unnecessary if the OP had bothered to read just one book on basic printing. Instead he wasted time, energy and money. Would you attempt to repair a car without first reading up on the subject? Would you fail to warn someone that they are too close to the cliff's edge. They certainly have the right to do something foolish. However giving advice should not be thought of as discouragement. I am a bit annoyed that this idea pops up from time to time on APUG.

removed account4 · Sep 13, 2017

if the OP is getting results using the developer the way he / she wants
why does it matter if he / she read a manual or does things by "the book"
the posted question had to do with capacity, nothing else..
i've done plenty of things without a manual, taken apart a lawnmower engine
and put it back together, taken apart a speed graphic and graflex slr and
put them back together and CLA'd the shutter, as well as
making photo emulsion from scratch to making dry plates
no consulting a book or attending a workshop, no interweb tutorials.
sometimes making mistakes is the best way to learn
and sometimes mistakes aren't mistakes at all ... but a new way of doing something

twelvetone12 · Sep 13, 2017

But OP did not say he wasted time and paper, he asked if, after using the stock solution, he can dilute it and use it again, and how much it will last. I've just finished reading a nice book on BW printing and nowhere it talks about using developer as stock and then the same stock diluted, I'm curious too (I suspect it is not a good idea).

Gerald C Koch · Sep 13, 2017

The basic information on Dektol can be found here. One does not even have to read a book since this is anathema to some.

http://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/prod/files/files/resources/e103cp.pdf

M Carter · Sep 13, 2017

Back to tray life and overall life - Liquidol is my developer of choice. Always feel like I can see the difference with fiber paper - the blacks can look sort of "silky" I guess. Comes as a liquid you generally dilute 1+9, so no mixing a giant jug from powders.

Main thing is, bottle up your tray mix, maybe spray some tetenal or canned air in - and it can keep for months. I've used it with green mold floating in it. If I'm in the middle of a session and it starts feeling weak, I splash a bit more concentrate in.

With lith printing, I can bleach back a slightly dark print (bad snatch point) and redevelop in very dilute Liquidol - I can really control the exposure that way, and it will return delicate highlights that get lost in other processes. With 2nd pass lith, I'll redevelop in warm lith until the development gets close or stops. Wash for 5 minutes and finish in dilute Liquidol to return any blown out highs to life. Really impressive stuff.

Using Dektol undiluted?

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