Using brown toner - unexpected results

Based on my conversation with lots of folks here, I am trying out a bottle of Brown toner. (I had tried the regular bleach redevelop type and didn't get the result I wanted - I was suggested to try direct brown toner) I picked up a Legacy Brown Toner from Freestyle as these are said to be a clone of Kodak's Brown Toner.

I mxed it according to instructions and toned it for 30 minutes. Ambient temperature was 93 degrees F. (temp of the solution was somewhere around 90F)

The results weren't what I was expecting.

Using Ilford MGIV RC neutral paper, the color shifted more towards purple than brown. The amount of color shift wasn't huge but looking the print side-by-side, it's clearly purplish. Only when dry, I could see a tinge of brown in it. I'm not sure if I call this "warm." Look coolish to me.

Using Ilford MGIV FB neutral paper, it didn't shift much at all....

I also tried toning in selenium. I saw some change but not drastic ones. I saw mid tones shifted up a bit and shadow was already dense, so I didn't see much change.

I have Ilford WT paper on it's way. Am I correct in thinking above paper do not take toning that well? Or did I screw something up?

Brown toneer take better to WT paper. Wait for it's arrival, I am sure you'll be happier with it.

WT picks up toner best but I find Berg Copper gives a great copper tone even on neutral paper. Quickly brown, then red over time.

I spoke too soon.

While what I said about the RC paper is true, as FB paper is drying it picked up brownish tone. I'm going to re-evaluate this tomorrow when it's completely dry and hot-pressed.

I was given some Kodak brown toner some time ago and finally got around to using it. I followed the directions on the lable for 5 minutes or so at 20 degrees C and cleared in fresh Hypo Clear and was delighted with the results. I will use it again, soon.

Could the high temperature used have caused these results?

I'm not very familiar with Legacy or Kodak's Brown toner, but am with Viradon, which is also a poly-sulfide toner. I absolutely love the results with Ilford's MGWT paper. Beautiful! I tone in selenium first then the Viradon. I have toned MGIV in Viradon but as you say it just turns it slightly purplish.

Interesting that you note that the color is intensifying as it's drying. All my experience has led me to believe a print is always most colorful going into the wash, then the color fades slightly upon washing and drying.

brian steinberger said:

Interesting that you note that the color is intensifying as it's drying. All my experience has led me to believe a print is always most colorful going into the wash, then the color fades slightly upon washing and drying.

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Yes.... it was different. When FB paper was wet, it looked as if the color hasn't changed at all. It had the same black/gray tone that ordinary B&W paper has. If anything, it had a slight purplish tone to it but very very slight. When I squeezed the print, it still had the same tone.

As it started to dry and when it got to a point where the paper started to buckle/curl a bit, lightening of the highlight became obvious and the shadow area started to take dark brownish tone. Density of the shadow hasn't changed at all but loss of density in the highlight are obvious. The whole print has this luminescent quality right now. I believe the print is now 95% dry. I'll have to wait until tomorrow and hot press it to be sure.

The shade of brown isn't that obvious. If I have untoned print and this one side-by-side, then it's obvious. By itself, it's slight brown. But slight increase in contrast has made the print sparkle. I hope it stay the same when it's completely dry and pressed.

I have a set of 5 identical prints and I'm making a reference folder. Untoned, Selenium toned, Sepia toned, Selenium+Sepia toned, and Brown toned.

Unfortunately, the RC print is a really ugly purple.

2F/2F said:

Could the high temperature used have caused these results?

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I don't think so because the box has a time recommendation for 100 degree F. If anything, over-toning may have done it as I toned at 92ish degree for 30+ minutes. I thought this type of toner can be done to completion..... I dunno, I'm still experimenting.

I'm curious.... what kind of process creates classic, traditional, and old-time look that sepia is often associated with? What I have is not that. It's brown but it doesn't have that quaint feel that I was after.

tkamiya said:

I'm curious.... what kind of process creates classic, traditional, and old-time look that sepia is often associated with? What I have is not that. It's brown but it doesn't have that quaint feel that I was after.

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There are many historic processes creating "brown colored" prints, not necessarily associated with any toner at all, but just the result of the process itself, like salt prints, albumen, Pt/Pd prints etc. These prints could receive a toning as well, to enhance permanence, but may originally have a clear brown town in their untoned state.

It is therefore difficult to answer your question, as there are to many options.

Anyway, using Ilford MGWT with its pronounced color shifts in toners, is more likely to get you in the ball park of an "old-time look"...

OK, the print is dry and pressed. Here's my final thought on brown toner and what it did on MGIV FB Neutral Paper.

The tone shifted to brown but dark brown. Compared side-by-side with Sepia toned print, brown has less red in it. Degree of brownness is that if I am looking at this print right next to un-toned print, brown is obvious; however, by itself, not so much so.

What's surprising is that highlight lightened up quite a bit while shadow didn't change that much. Mid-tone shifted a little. As a result, the contrast is significantly higher than un-toned or sepia toned print. I'd say about 1/3 contrast grade difference. The brown toned print picked up quite a bit of "brilliance" or "pop". (it just doesn't look all that brown).

I like it but not because of brown tone....

I'v been using brown toner on MGW fiber base with a more lower temp, around 70 to 75 deg. f. with good results.