Using a 35mm Flash on a MF camera?

copake_ham · Sep 13, 2007

Until a year or so ago, I was always a 35mm Nikon shooter.

Recently, with the collapse of film gear prices, I've begun shooting in MF.

I have several MF cameras, but I'm mainly interested in whether my Nikon flash units (e.g. SS-16 and SB-800 etc.) will "work" with my Pentax 67II?

By "work", I know they will flash and likely flash in synch etc. But does the different format size "matter"? In other words, to properly "light" the subject", is a 35mm flash unit compatible with a MF camera on regular setting? Or do I need to make some kind of "compensation" adjustments?

David A. Goldfarb · Sep 13, 2007

Yes, your 35mm flash units should work. If they have non-TTL auto exposure using a sensor on the flash unit, that should work as well. The only potential issue is that you might want more power to get a smaller aperture with MF. The usual solution in that case, lacking a bigger flash unit, would be to use faster film.

papagene · Sep 13, 2007

it should do the job just fine. i have used the Vivitar 283 with a Yashica mat and with my Fuji 6x7 rangefinder and it had plenty of coverage.

gene

Sirius Glass · Sep 14, 2007

They will work on MF.

Back to first principles:

"Normal" lenses have roughly the same field of view for 35mm and MF, that includes 6x7. Same logic for the wide angle and telephoto lenses.
The films are the same, barring the more limited choices in MF
The processing is the same. Therefore, with #2, the light sensitivity is the same.
The intensity of the strobe is the same.
The range of the strobe is the same. With #4 the guide numbers are the same.
The range of the sensors on the strobe is the same.

I have used my Nikon SB-800 with my Hasselblad and neither of them had any bad feelings about each other. In fact the got along quite well.

Steve

eddym · Sep 14, 2007

Both the SB-16 and the SB-800 have non-ttl automation via sensors in the flash, so they should work with all the non-dedicated features, just as they would on 35mm cameras. Synch should not be an issue as long as the Pentax shutter is set for X synch, and does not exceed the X synch shutter speed.

gr82bart · Sep 14, 2007

Yes they will work. Once when I forgot my flash for my Hassey, I used my SB-600. Basic lighting principles - think of the flash like a studio strobe. Use it manual, use a meter to get the f-stop you need and any flash will work with any camera.

Speaking of strobes, I actaully use several SB units for location shoots instead of buying the "portable" strobes. Works just fine and weighs a tonne less.

I guess this begs the question why bother with all the deicated flash units? Part of the answer has to do with GAS.

Regards, Art

dferrie · Sep 14, 2007

George,

Thanks for posting the question! I just remembered that I have an old Minolta A320 flash, which from memory has a standard shoe fitting before minolta switched to "proprietary" one on the Maxxum/Dynax models. So now I have some new to try this weekend with my "new" Mamiya 645.

David

David A. Goldfarb · Sep 14, 2007

I guess the reason one might want a dedicated flash unit, other than idiot proofing (i.e., automatically setting the flash sync speed) would be TTL flash metering, and I gather the Nikon units can do this with more than one flash, so that's an interesting feature, but I've managed to live without it.

If you like to shoot flash with a zoom lens that doesn't have a constant aperture, that's a case for TTL flash metering. Or if you do macro photography of something that moves, like insects or small birds, that's another case for TTL auto flash.

Dan Fromm · Sep 14, 2007

David A. Goldfarb said:
<snip> Or if you do macro photography of something that moves, like insects or small birds, that's another case for TTL auto flash.

I'm still not convinced of that, and I have a couple of flash-body pairs that do TTL auto flash.

I get more consistent results with pre-calibrated fixed output flash rigs. Choose a magnification, set aperture and, with the 283/VP-1s, power level, aim, and shoot. Nothing simpler.

This all comes down to the old discussion about whether metering incident or reflected is better. In this case, mindless incident seems to give better results than mindless reflected.

snegron · Sep 14, 2007

I have used a Vivitar 285HV with a Mamiya 645 without a problem. Have you considered the option of a handle mount flash? I find that having that extra grip with my Sunpack 555 and Mamiya 645 bodies helps out a great deal. Prices of Sunpack handle mount flashes have dropped considerably as well.

Bandicoot · Sep 14, 2007

I have a couple of Pentax dedicated flash guns that work with 35mm, the 645, and the 67II. The only thing that you change when you shift from one format to another is what position the flash head zooms to for a given focal length. In other words, where the flash head zooms to a 'medium' angle of coverage when used with a 50mm lens on a 35mm body, it would be at a middling wide position when used with a 50mm lens on 645 and very wide with a 50mm lens on 6x7, or looked at the other way round, it would zoom to the same medium position for 50mm, 75mm and 100mm respectively on the three different bodies.

With a non-dedicated gun you are in exactly the same position: as far as the flash in concerned nothing has changed from one format to another except the angle of coverage that a given focal length represents. And a non-dedicated gun probably isn't labelled in terms of focal lengths anyway but rather terms like 'wide', 'normal' and 'tele'...

Peter

David A. Goldfarb · Sep 14, 2007

Dan Fromm said:
I'm still not convinced of that, and I have a couple of flash-body pairs that do TTL auto flash.

I get more consistent results with pre-calibrated fixed output flash rigs. Choose a magnification, set aperture and, with the 283/VP-1s, power level, aim, and shoot. Nothing simpler.

This all comes down to the old discussion about whether metering incident or reflected is better. In this case, mindless incident seems to give better results than mindless reflected.

That might be. As I say, I've managed without TTL auto flash for years, but many bird photographers who do work with long lenses and fresnel flash extenders like that feature (preferring power over automation I use a primitive Norman flash unit with a tele reflector and determine fill exposure manually using a table I've taped to the reflector and the distance scale on the lens's focusing knob).

Doug Webb · Sep 14, 2007

I have Nikon flash units that I have used on my Pentax 67, but since the older models, i.e. the "non II" Pentax models don't have a ttl flash feature I have never used my Nikon units ttl with my Pentax 67. One issue that could present a problem is that if you try to use the Nikon units ttl with the Pentax 67 II, there could be a misconnunication in the circuitry that could cause damage to either the flash or body, or possibly both. I am no specialist in electroinics but I have been told that using non-dedicated units can result in damage if used ttl on a body they weren't intended for, or at least that's what was hypothesized to have caused the damage. Whether that means that the Nikon flashes actually would cause damage with a Pentax 67II, I can't answer, and it may not be a sales tactic that the manuals recommend using dedicated units. However, I know from my experience that using them manually or in auto flash mode everything has worked well for me with the Nikon flashes and Pentax 67. Good luck.
Doug Webb

mawz · Sep 18, 2007

Doug Webb said:
I have Nikon flash units that I have used on my Pentax 67, but since the older models, i.e. the "non II" Pentax models don't have a ttl flash feature I have never used my Nikon units ttl with my Pentax 67. One issue that could present a problem is that if you try to use the Nikon units ttl with the Pentax 67 II, there could be a misconnunication in the circuitry that could cause damage to either the flash or body, or possibly both. I am no specialist in electroinics but I have been told that using non-dedicated units can result in damage if used ttl on a body they weren't intended for, or at least that's what was hypothesized to have caused the damage. Whether that means that the Nikon flashes actually would cause damage with a Pentax 67II, I can't answer, and it may not be a sales tactic that the manuals recommend using dedicated units. However, I know from my experience that using them manually or in auto flash mode everything has worked well for me with the Nikon flashes and Pentax 67. Good luck.
Doug Webb

You'll never be able to use a Nikon flash in TTL with a Pentax camera, TTL circuitry is brand specific at a minimum. And non-dedicated flashes cannot do TTL by definition (Since the dedicated circuitry is what does the TTL control in the first place).

To do TTL flash with a 67II would require a Pentax TTL flash. Luckily the Pentax units are common across the 35mm/645/67 line as long as you know whether you need Analog or Digital TTL (Some units only do one type. Both the current Pentax TTL flashes do both types as well as the P-TTL metering used by the Pentax DSLR's and a couple film bodies like the MZ-S).

My experience is that Nikon flashes work fine in Auto or Manual modes on Pentax SLR's. I've used them with an LX, MZ-5n, *istD and K100D in the past, all TTL capable bodies.

DaveOttawa · Sep 18, 2007

I don't think anyone has mentioned this but a difference with the Pentax MF SLR is the rather slow sync speed, 1/30S I suspect, thsi will limit the scope for daylight fill use of flash. Otherwise as everyone says an auto or fully manual flash wil work. E.g. I use a Nikon SB22 with a Mamiya 6 RF camera.

Using a 35mm Flash on a MF camera?

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