Use Thomas Safelight or not

CCLA · Jul 24, 2017

When I bought some of my darkroom equipment, a Thomas safelight came with it.
It had some rust on the body so I am in the process of stripping and repainting it (anybody knows a paint that matches the original color?) and I found out that I probably should replace both sets of filters.
In the meanwhile I will be using a cheap LegacyPro model.
Seeing the cost of replacing the filters (not to mention the cost of the bulb) I was wondering what makes the Thompson such a supposedly good safelight?
What advantages does it havenover my current one?
Also, would it be possible to recoat the existing filters?

thank you
claudio

MattKing · Jul 24, 2017

When set up properly it provides the highest amount of safe illumination that I have ever worked in.
Bright enough to read a newspaper.
That being said, my new to me red LED rope light is also safe, and mighty bright, and can be turned off and on whenever I want.

John Koehrer · Jul 24, 2017

Rosco filters may have a match available. They make all kinds of lighting gels.
They used to have a sample book, don't think it's been discontinued.

Arklatexian · Jul 25, 2017

CCLA said:
When I bought some of my darkroom equipment, a Thomas safelight came with it.
It had some rust on the body so I am in the process of stripping and repainting it (anybody knows a paint that matches the original color?) and I found out that I probably should replace both sets of filters.
In the meanwhile I will be using a cheap LegacyPro model.
Seeing the cost of replacing the filters (not to mention the cost of the bulb) I was wondering what makes the Thompson such a supposedly good safelight?
What advantages does it havenover my current one?
Also, would it be possible to recoat the existing filters?

thank you
claudio

I don't know what advantages it has over your current safelight, I just know it is the best one that I have ever owned. If the bulb burns, don't get a new one except as a spare. Do you shoot B&W or color? The new lights came with filters for both. I use only B&W so I don't know how good they are for color. If you have the old filters, I would try them also before scrapping and if they need replacing get what you need "new". My darkroom is 9x16 ft and my light wide open would light two of my size darkroom. My only problem (BxW) is at full brightness (where you can read a newspaper) it makes focusing the enlarger a chore so mt Thomas stays at minimum brightness all the time. It is still plenty bright.....Regards!

mshchem · Jul 25, 2017

I have 4 of these safelights. Absolutely the best there is. Low pressure sodium vapor bulbs produce a very narrow emission spectra. If you are only using black and white paper I don't think the color of the filters are critical. You just need a orange or amber primary filter to attenuate the light. These things are so bright if it's too close to the enlarger you can't see to focus.
I have all mine equipped with the DUC fitters in the adjustable barn doors, this allows me to close them down completely for color printing, and yes after your eyes adjust you can see quite well.
I only open the doors about 1/4 of the way for b& w. Like Matt states you can easily read large print.
The bulbs are an off the shelf SOX lamp, you can buy brand new nice on Ebay for 25 bucks, no need to pay 100 bucks for one.
Just make sure the safelight is
Mike grounded, the old ones just had a 2 prong plug.
Freestyle sells the filters, most of these lights ran for decades so the filters can be pretty wrinkled up.

mshchem · Jul 25, 2017

oldtimermetoo said:
I don't know what advantages it has over your current safelight, I just know it is the best one that I have ever owned. If the bulb burns, don't get a new one except as a spare. Do you shoot B&W or color? The new lights came with filters for both. I use only B&W so I don't know how good they are for color. If you have the old filters, I would try them also before scrapping and if they need replacing get what you need "new". My darkroom is 9x16 ft and my light wide open would light two of my size darkroom. My only problem (BxW) is at full brightness (where you can read a newspaper) it makes focusing the enlarger a chore so mt Thomas stays at minimum brightness all the time. It is still plenty bright.....Regards!

+1

CCLA · Jul 25, 2017

I do B&W for now but might dip my feet in color in the future.
I do not think I need to test the filters. In the yellow ones the gel filter has almost completely crumbled, the red ones it has shrunk and ripped in several places.
I guess I will restore the light, and then worry about the filters.
Abother question, for most b&w paper the yello filters are sufficient. The red ones are needed only for ortho paper.
If I were to buy the yellow and black (for color) would this combo cove all printing papers except for xray?

claudio

mgb74 · Jul 25, 2017

I made a set of filters with Rubylith; others have used Rosco gels (can't remember which ones). I use my Thomas in a very small darkroom; approx 7' x 8'. I initially thought it would be too much for my little darkroom, but I put it up to test before selling it. Liked it so much I decided to keep. But others have sworn by these led bulbs in red.

Robbie Bedell · Jul 25, 2017

I replaced the red gels in mine with these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rosco-Rosco...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

I replaced the white ones with a frosted white, also Roscolux. My Thomas now works as new. It's a real joy to use.

Replacing the gels is kind of a messy job, but not expensive and well worth the effort. If you research a bit there is a video of replacing the gels someplace...I forget where...Robbie

mgb74 · Jul 25, 2017

Robbie Bedell said:
I replaced the red gels in mine with these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rosco-Roscolux-19-Fire-Gel-Filter-Sheet/360224014980?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

I replaced the white ones with a frosted white, also Roscolux. My Thomas now works as new. It's a real joy to use.

Replacing the gels is kind of a messy job, but not expensive and well worth the effort. If you research a bit there is a video of replacing the gels someplace...I forget where...Robbie

Is there an advantage to rebuilding the filters over just building new ones? I had the local hardware store cut 1/8" window glass to appropriate size.

Also, I wonder if the Rosco gel would work as a general safelight filter (say for the Kodak Model A). Finally, when I need yellow Rosco gel for an older cold light, I found it at a local theatrical supply house. And cheap.

A good discussion (there was a url link here which no longer exists), which suggest that the rosco might be better for the Thomas.

And while we're on the subject of rubylith and roscoe, even with my Thomas it can be difficult to read the aperture numbers on non-lit enlarging lenses. I cut a piece to go over the lens in a AA penlight. I save my "marginal" AA batteries for this light to cut down the light intensity.

outwest · Jul 25, 2017

They are great for lighting a darkroom to a pleasant level, however with all filters and the doors closed they will fog paper 6 or 8 feet away over the several minutes that might be required for complicated burning and dodging. Be sure and check your paper by exposing to the threshold first and then doing a test strip minute by minute to determine your safe level. I have to cover 2/3 of the window on the enlarger side.

Robbie Bedell · Jul 25, 2017

mgb74 said:
Is there an advantage to rebuilding the filters over just building new ones? I had the local hardware store cut 1/8" window glass to appropriate size.

I would think that cutting new glass would be fine...But I am stubborn and like to get messed up with sharp glass and melting gels and soapy water...

I do not know if these gels would work with traditional lighting. There are several experts out there who would know for sure...

voceumana · Jul 25, 2017

Back around 1995 I built a darkroom and first used a Thomas safelight. I didn't like the monochromatic light (a visual thing, it makes skin look weird), but that aside, it wasn't safe for many of the VC papers at the time, so I had to install filtered safelights to use VC paper. You can't really filter a sodium vapor light to get a different color, just to reduce the output of the color it provides, and I didn't want to spend a lot of money to try different filters that they offered.

Then I found a used red Aristo tube safelight and used it and like it a lot. I've moved, and when I get my new darkroom built, I'll used the Aristo. If and when it fails, I'll build my own using the super bright LEDs or rope lights that are now available.

Patrick Robert James · Jul 25, 2017

I always thought Thomas safelights were too bright and had a weird color that washed out the image on the easel. Never been a fan.

With LED lights improving so much, I'd spend my money on those. You can get a very bright light but still be completely safe. I also prefer red light. Since I started using LEDs about 15 years ago, I have no desire to go back to anything else.

f/stopblues · Jul 25, 2017

Patrick, what LED's are you using now? I have a Thomas Duplex but I've had fogging problems because my space is pretty small. I've even had to cover part of the gels to constrict the light further so I didn't fog.

Mainecoonmaniac · Jul 25, 2017

I used one for years and they're really bright. It started humming so I stopped using it. I use a strand of red LED lights and they work great. It uses very little power.

Patrick Robert James · Jul 25, 2017

f/stopblues said:
Patrick, what LED's are you using now? I have a Thomas Duplex but I've had fogging problems because my space is pretty small. I've even had to cover part of the gels to constrict the light further so I didn't fog.

You can go to SuperbrightLEDs.com and find some red ones. I put a sheet of ruby lith over mine because the first one I used years ago wasn't perfect and emitted a little yellow along with the red. I probably don't need it anymore with modern ones, but I have it so I use it.

mshchem · Jul 25, 2017

CCLA said:
I do B&W for now but might dip my feet in color in the future.
I do not think I need to test the filters. In the yellow ones the gel filter has almost completely crumbled, the red ones it has shrunk and ripped in several places.
I guess I will restore the light, and then worry about the filters.
Abother question, for most b&w paper the yello filters are sufficient. The red ones are needed only for ortho paper.
If I were to buy the yellow and black (for color) would this combo cove all printing papers except for xray?

claudio

Before you go and spend a bunch of money on an old safelight Like others have commented, the color of the filter is moot. Red and yellow are more to please the human that the marketing boys are trying to sell filters to.
From Wiki " low pressure sodium light is almost totally made up from deep yellow wavelengths at 589.0 and 589.6nm, and no colour rendering is possible. "
I think any neutral density will work. VC papers are very sensitive to Blue and Green light (somewhere between 400 to 525 nm) . IF YOU BLAST it with 589 it WILL fog, but that's not what VC paper is tuned to do. I love these safelights, but if I was starting from scratch, I would seriously consider LED's. You can buy a red led bulb online for 2 bucks and have more light than I did in the first 25 years I worked in the dark.
Don't give up on the Thomas. For the outer, "Black" is what I use, I never open them up more than about 1/4 to 1/3, The outer filter only comes into play when fully closed. You might want to buy the inner filter, and put an opaque material in the outer doors, and just open 1/3.
Good luck!, Mike

Patrick Robert James · Jul 25, 2017

One thing to note is that red LEDs are much brighter and safer than the old incandescent safelights of the past since they emit a narrow wavelength and don't have to have the majority of their light filtered out. Makes it much nicer to be in the "dark"room!

RalphLambrecht · Jul 26, 2017

CCLA said:
When I bought some of my darkroom equipment, a Thomas safelight came with it.
It had some rust on the body so I am in the process of stripping and repainting it (anybody knows a paint that matches the original color?) and I found out that I probably should replace both sets of filters.
In the meanwhile I will be using a cheap LegacyPro model.
Seeing the cost of replacing the filters (not to mention the cost of the bulb) I was wondering what makes the Thompson such a supposedly good safelight?
What advantages does it havenover my current one?
Also, would it be possible to recoat the existing filters?

thank you
claudio

I don't like one big safelight in the middle of the darkroom; always stand in my own shadow but prefer several small safelights close to where I work such as the enlarger or the trays.

CCLA · Jul 26, 2017

RalphLambrecht said:
I don't like one big safelight in the middle of the darkroom; always stand in my own shadow but prefer several small safelights close to where I work such as the enlarger or the trays.

Mr. Lambrecht,

that is a really interesting observation. I have noticed that happens, but I was hoping that with the Thomas which points up and provides light by reflection this would be mitigated.

claudio

CCLA · Jul 26, 2017

Mr. Davis,

thank you for that!

claudio

Pierre Barrellon · Jul 26, 2017

In my photoclub, there are 3 Thomas hanging in the room, and it is very very bright. When I was printing there, I used to use higher ilford grade filters... seems like a safelight problem. It does not fog unexposed paper, but on the image, which obviously is an already exposed piece of paper, any tiny bit of added exposure (from the supposedly "safe" light) will have an effect, reducing contrast and affecting tonality.

During one of his (great) workshops, John Sexton told us that kodak engineers used to avoid Thomas safelight. The output is so high that it is really hard not to fog paper, unless you have a big darkroom and the safelight is finely tested. Run a proper test that will let you know.

RalphLambrecht · Jul 26, 2017

Pierre Barrellon said:
In my photoclub, there are 3 Thomas hanging in the room, and it is very very bright. When I was printing there, I used to use higher ilford grade filters... seems like a safelight problem. It does not fog unexposed paper, but on the image, which obviously is an already exposed piece of paper, any tiny bit of added exposure (from the supposedly "safe" light) will have an effect, reducing contrast and affecting tonality.

During one of his (great) workshops, John Sexton told us that kodak engineers used to avoid Thomas safelight. The output is so high that it is really hard not to fog paper, unless you have a big darkroom and the safelight is finely tested. Run a proper test that will let you know.

this is correct; once the paper is already exposed to some light, it becomes much more sensitive to any additional light; that's why safelight tests are so important.

~andi · Jul 26, 2017

With red LED you can go very very bright without fogging. I sold all safelights I have been using and now use a single Heiland LED safelight at full power. I can read the newspaper easy everywhere. Its like night and day compared to the incandescent red or green/yellow bulbs and Paterson safelight i used before. I prefer amber lights or yellow/green to red but the brightness levels these red LEDs provide convinced me and I've not regretted it ever since (skip to 4m11s for a comparison):

Andi

Use Thomas Safelight or not

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