Use Rodinal as color developer

Ranieri · Dec 13, 2022

"The other good thing about Rodinal is that it also works as a very weak colour developer. So, if you use it on colour film, you can get the slightest hints of the original colours coming out. This works best if you underexpose the image a little, although you’ll then get more grain when you scan." -Lomography
So I wonder: is it possible to use Rodinal as color developer and get decent images?
Maybe overdeveloping it by a LOT in Rodinal and then bleaching fixing etc.
Let me know if you think it's possible and how it should be done, I got the chemistry and films and I will try following your suggestions.

Ranieri

p.s. I hope Color is the right section for this thread, if not I apologize and will move it.

Steve@f8 · Dec 13, 2022

I’m interested; can you post sample images please?
(And dilution / temp / and duration.)

Ranieri · Dec 13, 2022

Steve@f8 said:
I’m interested; can you post sample images please?

I haven't tried it yet.
I asked here to collect information so I have to make fewer attempts because my film reserves are very limited.

pentaxuser · Dec 13, 2022

Interestíng idea Maybe the next stage is to try and make an RA4 print with colour developer, stop and blix to see if the slight hint of colour will transfer onto RA4 paper?

pentaxuser

Donald Qualls · Dec 13, 2022

Several developers we think of as "B&W" developers will produce limited levels of dyes that can be captured by the couplers in a color emulsion.

PPD is used in some fine-grain developers, and was the basis for the color developer CD-1, but I've seen reports of other developers -- including Xtol -- producing low levels of dyes.

If this works at all, it ought to be possible to loop the process (develop, bleach -- NOT blix -- wash, repeat) to get more dye formation.

Ranieri · Dec 13, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
If this works at all, it ought to be possible to loop the process (develop, bleach -- NOT blix -- wash, repeat) to get more dye formation.

Nice idea, I'll give it a try as soon as I can and post the results.

redbandit · Dec 13, 2022

I have seen reports of hc-110 and rodinal and xtol being used as a developer for colour film.

However the things i have noticed is that

1. most complain about how the resulting black and white image needs ALOT of work in the computer to deal with the color casts from the dye clouds

2. stand development

3. works rather nicely and is recommended by ilford for xp2 super.

NB23 · Dec 13, 2022

Kodachrome went into all kinds of bw developers as well.

Anyhow, I don’t know why would anyone do this. No one can possibly be, even remotely, happy with the outcome.

Donald Qualls · Dec 13, 2022

NB23 said:
Kodachrome went into all kinds of bw developers as well.

Well, yes, but Kodachrome got multiple development steps after the reversal exposure, each with its dye coupler in the developer. Kodachrome was a multi-layer B&W film with a special development process to bring out the single-exposure trichrome it produced via differential sensitization and internal filtering. Any B&W film can produce a single-color dye image (like one layer of Kodachrome) with a dye coupler and color-capable developer (this is also how some color toning processes for B&W prints work).

koraks · Dec 13, 2022

Ranieri said:
So I wonder: is it possible to use Rodinal as color developer and get decent images?

No, not really. They'll be quite monochromatic and the colors will be too weak to get a decent end result even with heavy digital post processing.
If this would work, we wouldn't bother with stuff like CD4 and we could just use plain old Rodinal for our color films, but as it happens, this is not a realistic option.

blee1996 · Dec 13, 2022

Rodinal can certainly be used as first developer, but I would also recommend using a CD3/CD4 color developer as the next step.

Rudeofus · Dec 13, 2022

There was a report here a few months back about p-Aminophenol and color couplers. My take from this thread is: Rodinal will work better if you lower its pH to around 8.

mshchem · Dec 13, 2022

I've been paying 16 dollars for a 135-36 of Ektar. I buy Kodak Flexicolor developer replenisher 5L of replenisher for 15 dollars, the developer is relatively inexpensive, if you can find it.
Rodinal is great for it's intended use.

Donald Qualls · Dec 13, 2022

No question you'll get better color results using the intended process (C-41 or E-6, depending on your film of choice). However, the spirit of experimentation can lead people in unexpected directions.

Heck, I've got some color scans of B&W film processed in Caffenol that look a lot like old two-color Technicolor -- this isn't dyes formed by the developer and captured by couplers in various layers, this is the stain reading as color in the scan. I have no reason to expect anything realistic, but in this case, the colors in the positives are close to those in the original scenes (except lacking any blues). It's an experiment I'd like to repeat sometime when I get caught up on my processing backlog.

NB23 · Dec 14, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
Well, yes, but Kodachrome got multiple development steps after the reversal exposure, each with its dye coupler in the developer. Kodachrome was a multi-layer B&W film with a special development process to bring out the single-exposure trichrome it produced via differential sensitization and internal filtering. Any B&W film can produce a single-color dye image (like one layer of Kodachrome) with a dye coupler and color-capable developer (this is also how some color toning processes for B&W prints work).

As I was saying... shetty resultados.

redbandit · Dec 14, 2022

koraks said:
No, not really. They'll be quite monochromatic and the colors will be too weak to get a decent end result even with heavy digital post processing.
If this would work, we wouldn't bother with stuff like CD4 and we could just use plain old Rodinal for our color films, but as it happens, this is not a realistic option.

Everything I have seen on the topic of using black and white developing chemicals on color film,

HAS NEVER BEEN ABOUT GETTING A COLOR PHOTO...

its always been about

1. people using up expired color film, and not wanting to spend 18$ a roll for development.
2. people wanting to use old color film, and getting actual BLACK AND WHITE NEGATIVES out of it in hopes that the "supeior" exposure latitude of color film will let them get "better" quality black and white images.

yes there WILL be a color cast, and there are methods of dealing with that in photoshop they say

koraks · Dec 14, 2022

redbandit said:
yes there WILL be a color cast, and there are methods of dealing with that in photoshop they say

Nope; there's no salvaging the colors on color film developed in Rodinal. Can't salvage what basically isn't there to begin with.

MattKing · Dec 14, 2022

Somewhere on Photrio there is at least one thread about bleaching and re-developing colour film that has been processed using black and white chemicals, and being able to extract some of the colour information. So far I haven't been able to find it.

Truzi · Dec 14, 2022

MattKing said:
Somewhere on Photrio there is at least one thread about bleaching and re-developing colour film that has been processed using black and white chemicals, and being able to extract some of the colour information. So far I haven't been able to find it.

First thing that comes to mind is Athiril's first post in this thread, but I'm not sure it's what you are refering to.

Bleach & colour processes

Hi all, I've done a bit of reading (and searching on APUG) wrt Bleach Bypass. Clearly one can bypass the bleach stage altogether which will result in serious contrast, but what surprises me is that people recommend underexposing by a stop in order to bring some of the highlights back...

www.photrio.com

MattKing · Dec 14, 2022

That isn't it.

redbandit · Dec 15, 2022

koraks said:
Nope; there's no salvaging the colors on color film developed in Rodinal. Can't salvage what basically isn't there to begin with.

never said "salvaging it in photoshop to use as color scans' i was saying "salvage in photoshop to eliminate the color cast to have proper black and white negative scans"

I KNOW i have seen a thread somewhere on here about someone doing that, and having great luck with getting conventional bw scans after removing the dye clouds from the scans of the colour negative film developed in rodinal.

I do remember them posting a straight up color scan of the negative and it having that "oh wow that is a 40 year old colour film negative from the closet" look

koraks · Dec 15, 2022

redbandit said:
to have proper black and white negative scans

Oh, you mean just desaturate or scan in b&w mode to begin with. Yeah, but that's kind of trivial, isn't it.

pentaxuser · Dec 15, 2022

MattKing said:
That isn't it.

Conjures up a picture of Snozzle Durante looking for the lost chord sitting at his piano

pentaxuser

NB23 · Dec 15, 2022

Let’s face it; this post was just (yet) another attempt at making Rodinal a unique/magical developer.

Just as with the stand development non-technique, where rodinal is supposed to be the only developer capable of doing it (ruining it, actually).

redbandit · Dec 15, 2022

koraks said:
Oh, you mean just desaturate or scan in b&w mode to begin with. Yeah, but that's kind of trivial, isn't it.

AH so the moderator on the former analog photography user group feels that the fact people are using up old color film , and then developing it as a black and white film, and then scanning and editing in photoshop to remove the color dye clouds

is a TRIVIAL thing...

Personally its a far far far more logical thing to do considering many mail order labs WONT process expired film rolls PERIOD. And with the cost of film, and the fact that most feel the color film can give results better then most bargain brands of black and white film stock, WHY WASTE IT?

Use Rodinal as color developer

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