Use a Tominon 135mm f/4.5 as enlarging lens?

brofkand · Nov 30, 2016

Folks,

I am seriously considering joining a local community darkroom next year to get back into printing. I've been shooting film but just scanning it for years and really want to do darkroom work again.

The darkroom has a collection of Beseler 23C enlargers which obviously don't do 4x5 - but they also have some Omega enlargers that will do 4x5. They only have 50mm lenses, though.

I got a Tominon 135mm f/4.5 lens from an APUGer some time ago and have used it on a 4x5 camera. But I know it was originally used on a copy stand - so I was wondering if I could mount this lens to the Omega lens board and use it as an enlarging lens? Has anyone tried it?

Thanks!

darkroommike · Nov 30, 2016

The Tominon uses a Copal thread 40mm x 0.75 rather than the standard enlarger 39mmx26tpi.

brofkand · Nov 30, 2016

darkroommike said:
The Tominon uses a Copal thread 40mm x 0.75 rather than the standard enlarger 39mmx26tpi.

Assuming I can work around the mounting issue, do you think the lens will be a suitable 4x5 enlarging lens? Or will it not cover the negative in an enlarging scenario? I Have no idea how I'd calculate something like this...

John Wiegerink · Nov 30, 2016

brofkand said:
Assuming I can work around the mounting issue, do you think the lens will be a suitable 4x5 enlarging lens? Or will it not cover the negative in an enlarging scenario? I Have no idea how I'd calculate something like this...

Why don't you just try it? Slap a 4x5 neg in the carrier and hold the lens up to the lens board and see. I'm sure it will cover it, but you never know 'til ya try.

brofkand · Nov 30, 2016

John Wiegerink said:
Why don't you just try it? Slap a 4x5 neg in the carrier and hold the lens up to the lens board and see. I'm sure it will cover it, but you never know 'til ya try.

The darkroom is only equipped for 35mm currently - no 4x5 negative carriers (or lenses obviously). They're working off donated equipment, and apparently everyone who had 4x5 enlargers only donated the 35mm negative carriers and lenses. I just wanted to know if anyone had tried it first before I try to rig up a lens board and negative carrier.

Jim Jones · Nov 30, 2016

Negative carriers and even lens boards can be improvised from plywood, hardboard, or even mat board for testing the Tominon. They may not hold the lens and film perfectly parallel, but tilting the easel can check for this.

brofkand · Nov 30, 2016

Jim Jones said:
Negative carriers and even lens boards can be improvised from plywood, hardboard, or even mat board for testing the Tominon. They may not hold the lens and film perfectly parallel, but tilting the easel can check for this.

Definitely plan on testing it. I have experience making negative carriers with mat board, but I imagine I'll need lauan or masonite for a lens board. Still, nothing that's out of the realm of possibility.

darkroommike · Dec 1, 2016

The 135mm Tominon you were using on a 4x5 camera should cover a 4x5 negative on an enlarger, that said I'm not sure how well it covered 4x5 on the camera at infinity, but not an issue since you do not use enlargers focused to infinity. That lens originally came off an MP-3 or MP-4 copy camera so it should be fine. If you are putting the lens on an Omega D-2 you'll need the 6+ inch condenser lens set and the correct lens cone for a 135mm lens. 2.75 inches high 421-101, I'll bet that most 39mm lens discs can hold a 40mm lens just need a jam nut for the back. And which lamphead are you using, the easiest is the variable condenser head, http://www.jollinger.com/photo/cam-coll/manuals/enlargers/omega/D2 Condenser and Dichro.pdf

brofkand · Dec 1, 2016

darkroommike said:
The 135mm Tominon you were using on a 4x5 camera should cover a 4x5 negative on an enlarger, that said I'm not sure how well it covered 4x5 on the camera at infinity, but not an issue since you do not use enlargers focused to infinity. That lens originally came off an MP-3 or MP-4 copy camera so it should be fine. If you are putting the lens on an Omega D-2 you'll need the 6+ inch condenser lens set and the correct lens cone for a 135mm lens. 2.75 inches high 421-101, I'll bet that most 39mm lens discs can hold a 40mm lens just need a jam nut for the back. And which lamphead are you using, the easiest is the variable condenser head, http://www.jollinger.com/photo/cam-coll/manuals/enlargers/omega/D2 Condenser and Dichro.pdf

Thanks for that, the enlarger I'll be using is most likely an Omega D-2 or similar. I have asked the darkroom director to confirm the model of enlarger they have that can handle 4x5. I toured the facility yesterday but did not think of making a note of the enlarger model number.

I am fairly sure the lamp head attached is the variable condenser head - it looks like I'll only need to reposition the condenser lens in the stack to re-configure the enlarger for 4x5.

darkroommike · Dec 1, 2016

brofkand said:
Thanks for that, the enlarger I'll be using is most likely an Omega D-2 or similar. I have asked the darkroom director to confirm the model of enlarger they have that can handle 4x5. I toured the facility yesterday but did not think of making a note of the enlarger model number.

I am fairly sure the lamp head attached is the variable condenser head - it looks like I'll only need to reposition the condenser lens in the stack to re-configure the enlarger for 4x5.

The variable condenser head uses three condenser lenses, a pair below the "box" and one more that can be moved to different positions, you remove the third lens when printing 4x5 negs. Don't drop it or misplace it.

Paul Howell · Dec 1, 2016

I think you would better off looking on line for a Wallensake ro Kodak Ektar 135mm, the are very inexpensiveness, Kodak made 2 lines of enlarging lens you want the 4 element Ektar. For a 135mm you need a 135 lens board, would be hard to make from wood or sheet metal, you can make a negative carrier if you have a few metal working power tool. You can ask the staff it they have lens board hidden away somewhere, if not back to ebay.

brofkand · Dec 1, 2016

darkroommike said:
The variable condenser head uses three condenser lenses, a pair below the "box" and one more that can be moved to different positions, you remove the third lens when printing 4x5 negs. Don't drop it or misplace it.

Noted. Thanks. I may be back once I hear back from the director with the model numbers - I am thinking they're D-2 or D-3, but they may be something else. They do look very similar to the photos I see online of D-2's.

brofkand · Dec 1, 2016

Paul Howell said:
I think you would better off looking on line for a Wallensake ro Kodak Ektar 135mm, the are very inexpensiveness, Kodak made 2 lines of enlarging lens you want the 4 element Ektar. For a 135mm you need a 135 lens board, would be hard to make from wood or sheet metal, you can make a negative carrier if you have a few metal working power tool. You can ask the staff it they have lens board hidden away somewhere, if not back to ebay.

I have a solid lead on a 4x5 negative carrier and lens cone/135mm lens for an Omega D-2 enlarger - makes the hard work easy. Just hoping the enlarger is in fact a D series so the parts will work.

Rick A · Dec 1, 2016

darkroommike said:
The variable condenser head uses three condenser lenses, a pair below the "box" and one more that can be moved to different positions, you remove the third lens when printing 4x5 negs. Don't drop it or misplace it.

The third "variable" lens only gets removed for 150mm lens, moves to the upper most slot for 135mm lens.

brofkand · Dec 1, 2016

Rick A said:
The third "variable" lens only gets removed for 150mm lens, moves to the upper most slot for 135mm lens.

View attachment 168444

That makes it perfectly clear, thank you!

Paul Howell · Dec 1, 2016

brofkand said:
I have a solid lead on a 4x5 negative carrier and lens cone/135mm lens for an Omega D-2 enlarger - makes the hard work easy. Just hoping the enlarger is in fact a D series so the parts will work.

D2 and D3 used different lens cones but as I recall the same negative carrier. The lens cone uses a separate plate to mount the lens so can drill it for the lens you have, but a Kodak or Wallenake I think would be a better lens.

Paul Howell · Dec 1, 2016

brofkand said:
I have a solid lead on a 4x5 negative carrier and lens cone/135mm lens for an Omega D-2 enlarger - makes the hard work easy. Just hoping the enlarger is in fact a D series so the parts will work.

D2 and D3 used different lens cones but as I recall the same negative carrier. The lens cone uses a separate plate to mount the lens so can drill it for the lens you have, but a Kodak or Wallenake I think would be a better lens.

MattKing · Dec 1, 2016

If it is a D5 or D6 it uses a different lens mount.
I would second the suggestion to keep your eyes open for another lens. There are inexpensive 150mm (best for 4x5) lenses out there. Try to find one with a 39mm thread.
When you determine which enlarger it is, here is KHB's resource for Omega enlargers: http://www.khbphotografix.com/omega/Enlargers.htm
Each of those links includes sub-links for things like lens mounts and accessories.

darkroommike · Dec 2, 2016

The D2, DII lens cone

Rick A said:
The third "variable" lens only gets removed for 150mm lens, moves to the upper most slot for 135mm lens.

View attachment 168444

Yup, I'll be darned, it's been so long since I used mine I forgot.

For DII/D2 the cone is rotated 90 deg. to install, the D3/D4 cones push straight in, the D5/D6 uses a longer bellows and no cones, just smaller "oval" lensplates.

ic-racer · Dec 2, 2016

I'd keep contact printing until a proper enlarging lens is obtained. It might be easier to find a cone (for 135 or 150) and then get a lens. Lenses are much easier to find than cones.

brofkand · Dec 2, 2016

ic-racer said:
I'd keep contact printing until a proper enlarging lens is obtained. It might be easier to find a cone (for 135 or 150) and then get a lens. Lenses are much easier to find than cones.

So i've discovered. There are tons of lenses, negative carriers, etc., on eBay for a few bucks but only a few cones - and most are priced out of my comfort zone for an enlarger I don't own. I will likely do as you suggest and just make contact prints until a deal falls into my lap.

choiliefan · Dec 3, 2016

Where in NC are you and darkroom located? Best wishes

brofkand · Dec 3, 2016

choiliefan said:
Where in NC are you and darkroom located? Best wishes

This is the darkroom at the NCSU Craft Center in Raleigh.

Paul Howell · Dec 4, 2016

Have you asked if the Craft Center will buy a cone and lens?

mdarnton · Dec 4, 2016

The Tominon is designed to work in the reproduction ratio you are concerned about, but in the other direction, from subject to neg. It should work as well as any other good Tessar-formula lens calculated for enlarging, which includes some lenses recommended above as "better" alternatives. Whether it's a good lens at all seems to be a disagreement. Figure this: it was designed by a large company for an important task on a widely used commercial piece of equipment specificially for its special job. I doubt it's as bad as some people seem to think it is. Mine is fine, at any rate. The only way to find out is to use it and see if you're satisfied. If you don't like it, you'll already have the various bits and pieces needed to hang another lens in its place, so no loss.

darkroommike · Dec 4, 2016

mdarnton said:
The Tominon is designed to work in the reproduction ratio you are concerned about, but in the other direction, from subject to neg. It should work as well as any other good Tessar-formula lens calculated for enlarging, which includes some lenses recommended above as "better" alternatives. Whether it's a good lens at all seems to be a disagreement. Figure this: it was designed by a large company for an important task on a widely used commercial piece of equipment specificially for its special job. I doubt it's as bad as some people seem to think it is. Mine is fine, at any rate. The only way to find out is to use it and see if you're satisfied. If you don't like it, you'll already have the various bits and pieces needed to hang another lens in its place, so no loss.

I like the way you think and suspect that all the folks that don't like the Tominon may be trying to use it as a conventional large format lens, at infinity focus and with movements. This lens was not designed for either of those tasks. It is a specal purpose lens intended for use in the close focus and macro range.

Use a Tominon 135mm f/4.5 as enlarging lens?

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