US MEASURES

Doremus Scudder · Jan 1, 2022

Measuring spoons are calibrated and come in sets. They are not the spoons you use to eat with. They have metric volume equivalents that you can look up. Then you simply just use the appropriate volume of whatever powder the formula calls for when mixing your spoon recipe. That, however, takes the simplicity out of mixing things with spoon recipes. I use down-and-dirty spoon recipes for print developers, bleaches, etc. Dipping a measuring spoon into the jar, leveling it with the chemical spatula and then dumping it in the beaker is pretty fast compared to weighing things out. Many formulae don't need more precision than this. For those that do, I use my triple-beam balance scale or make percentage stock solutions.

So, for the OP: If you don't have a set of measuring spoons and want to make up the formula with spoon volumes often, I'd recommend you measure out the volumes and then weight them so you can mix the formula by weight next time. Pouring 15ml into and out of a graduated cylinder seems like a bother to me.

AgX:
Having grown up on the US West Coast, I learned cooking and baking by volumes; cups of flour, spoons of this and that. When I moved to Austria, I had to get used to weighing out my flour and other dry ingredients. I hadn't owned a kitchen scale before then. Still, lots of those German-language recipes called for spoon measures (Teelöffel, Esslöffel), so I'm sure you can find measuring spoons there. In fact, I'm sure I still own a set or two from my time in Vienna.

Best,

Doremus

Sirius Glass · Jan 1, 2022

When we tried to use my grandmother's recipes for baking, they did not work. The measurements were a glass of this, a glass of that, a hoofen of the other, ... My aunt sat down with our grandmother and documented everything. Each glass measurement was a different size glass in her kitchen and a hoofen was her handful. All these had to be converted to standard measurements before we could duplicate her recipes.

Pieter12 · Jan 1, 2022

Philippe-Georges said:
Thanks Otto,
But this app converts tablespoons in to ml not in grams...
Unless I am not using this app correctly...

I thought you wanted volumes...that is what those measures are, not weight.

grat · Jan 1, 2022

Here's some reasonable conversions (with a bit of rounding):

3 teaspoons -> 1 tablespoon (14.8 ml)
2 tablespoons -> 1 fluid oz (29.6 ml)
8 oz -> 1 cup (236.6 ml)
2 cups -> 1 pint
2 pints -> 1 quart
4 quarts -> 1 gallon US (3.79 L)

That of course, totally ignores how packed the chemistry is, or the density. By weight is obviously preferred, but if you have density and volume in ml, you should be able to get to weight pretty simply.

And usually, it's the ratios that matter anyhow with photochemistry.

Doremus Scudder · Jan 1, 2022

There are inherent problems with weight measurements of chemicals as well. Unless the amount of water absorbed (or not) in the chemical is known, a simple weight measurement may not be accurate either. The easiest way to get accuracy there is to use the most stable form of whatever dry chemical you need, e.g., sodium carbonate monohydrate instead of anhydrous, etc. Purity is an issue with weight measurements as well. There's always a margin of error...

Doremus

RalphLambrecht · Jan 1, 2022

VTLD said:
Not sure if I agree with this, a fresh water density applied to powders?

One thing that needs to be mentioned about powders used by volume is how COMPACTED the powder is, which affects actual density significantly. The agreed way is to have powder fill measuring
t cup without being compacted, just swiped across top to finalize it. And the key is to be consistent with
t it time after time to have any repeatability.

true but it works as 'close enough' for photographic formulae.

cmacd123 · Jan 1, 2022

there was a lad back quite a few years ago who had designed a set of Colour chemicals that used "Teaspoon"measures. if course he recommended one particular set of teaspoons, as he noted that different brands gave different Volumes. In my reckless youth, long before cheep digital scales were invented, I did manage to develop both C-41 and ECN2 film using his formula. (even though he used CD-4 rather than either of the two developing agents that should be used for those two processes.

the tick of course is to weigh out each chemical and find a combination of spoon measures that result in the same mass. the use will come very close by then using the spoons to measure out the volume of each chemical that is close to the required mass of that chemical.

fellow was named Dale Nevile as I recall and he was in his 80s back 30 years ago, so I strongly suspect that he is no longer around.

Craig · Jan 2, 2022

grat said:
Here's some reasonable conversions (with a bit of rounding):

3 teaspoons -> 1 tablespoon (14.8 ml)
2 tablespoons -> 1 fluid oz (29.6 ml)
8 oz -> 1 cup (236.6 ml)
2 cups -> 1 pint
2 pints -> 1 quart
4 quarts -> 1 gallon US (3.79 L)

It's worth noting that this is US measure. Imperial measurement in the rest of the world, and especially in Commonwealth countries will be based in UK measures. For example, there are 20 oz in a pint, 40 oz in a quart and 160 oz in a gallon ( 4.54 L). US and UK ounces are different too, a UK ounce is 35.2 ml, and US ounce is 33.8 ml.

Craig · Jan 2, 2022

AgX said:
Never saw such over here in household shops. It is an american concept/unit.

Measuring in cups and spoons for cooking and baking is very common in the UK as well, or at least until recently when things somewhat went metric.

Ian Leake · Jan 2, 2022

MattKing said:
Any recipe that uses these types of volumetric measurements probably doesn't require high precision.

+1

grat · Jan 2, 2022

Craig said:
It's worth noting that this is US measure. Imperial measurement in the rest of the world, and especially in Commonwealth countries will be based in UK measures. For example, there are 20 oz in a pint, 40 oz in a quart and 160 oz in a gallon ( 4.54 L). US and UK ounces are different too, a UK ounce is 35.2 ml, and US ounce is 33.8 ml.

Yes, but the question was about how to convert from US measures, not imperial.

Agulliver · Jan 2, 2022

I remember measuring spoons for baking in the UK when I was a kid, before everything went metric....then rediscovered them and cups when I lived in America at the very end of the 90s.

I've not come across any chemical "recipe" requiring spoons or cups, but I would assume any such recipe is intended to be made at home and the accuracy is not vital to the end result.

When dealing with weighing laboratory chemicals, it is usually known whether a compound is anhydrous, or hydrated and how many water molecules there are etc.

In this instance I'd buy a set of measuring spoons or assume that 1 tablespoon is going to me 15ml.

Vaughn · Jan 2, 2022

MattKing said:
Any recipe that uses these types of volumetric measurements probably doesn't require high precision. So if you are thinking about using the recipe, check where it came from (US vs. UK) and use the equivalent in milliliters, but don't expect absolute accuracy...

+1
Good -- glad I read the posts and found this before posting myself.

If things are measured in teaspoons, translating this into tenths of grams makes no sense (not logical) as tenths of grams far exceeds the original the level of accuracy. Even grams are questionable.

Just always use the same teaspoon (or set of measuring devises). Very handy for a lot of the alt processes. I tend to use heaping tablespoons and I have weighed out what this amount to see what it comes to with various chemicals (differences in density, & angle of repose) to get an idea of the amount being used. I use tablespoons mostly for clearing baths for platinum/palladium printing.

foc · Jan 2, 2022

I enjoy cooking and understand the tea spoon, table spoon, cup, dash and pinch, measurements and they work fine for their application.
BUT when it comes to photographic chemical measurements, I was taught in grams and millilitres simply because a gram is a gram and a millilitre is a millilitre.
I know with B&W so long as volume and ratios are correct then teaspoons are ok but with C41 I always have followed the manufacturer's directions and they are normally in grams and litres.

Philippe-Georges · Jan 3, 2022

Hallo,

first: a happy and prosperous 2022!

I was asking about that tablespoon measuring thing because I wanted to try BEERNOL just for fun...
Here is the formula as found on shootitwithfilm.com:
1 l of beer (organic pilsner as industrial pilsner contains citric acid)
2 tablespoons of vit. C
½ cup of washing Soda

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Jan 3, 2022

Philippe-Georges said:
Hallo,

first: a happy and prosperous 2022!

I was asking about that tablespoon measuring thing because I wanted to try BEERNOL just for fun...
Here is the formula as found on shootitwithfilm.com:
1 l of beer (organic pilsner as industrial pilsner contains citric acid)
2 tablespoons of vit. C
½ cup of washing Soda

You can probably take out beer from the formula and it'll mostly give similar results.

Sirius Glass · Jan 3, 2022

Philippe-Georges said:
Hallo,

first: a happy and prosperous 2022!

I was asking about that tablespoon measuring thing because I wanted to try BEERNOL just for fun...
Here is the formula as found on shootitwithfilm.com:
1 l of beer (organic pilsner as industrial pilsner contains citric acid)
2 tablespoons of vit. C
½ cup of washing Soda

I recommend that you drink the beer and then use XTOL. I get better results that way.

RalphLambrecht · Jan 3, 2022

cmacd123 said:
there was a lad back quite a few years ago who had designed a set of Colour chemicals that used "Teaspoon"measures. if course he recommended one particular set of teaspoons, as he noted that different brands gave different Volumes. In my reckless youth, long before cheep digital scales were invented, I did manage to develop both C-41 and ECN2 film using his formula. (even though he used CD-4 rather than either of the two developing agents that should be used for those two processes.

the tick of course is to weigh out each chemical and find a combination of spoon measures that result in the same mass. the use will come very close by then using the spoons to measure out the volume of each chemical that is close to the required mass of that chemical.

fellow was named Dale Nevile as I recall and he was in his 80s back 30 years ago, so I strongly suspect that he is no longer around.

Hopefully he's in the big deck from in the sky working together with Ansel Adams on some new recipes.

grat · Jan 3, 2022

Old Gregg said:
I actually laughed out loud at this
It's like saying "This is a US Standard Rat Tail, not just any tail of a random rat in your basement".

After 20 years I only managed to adopt miles and Fahrenheit. Everything else continues to sound like bad comedy to my year. Every time I hear "two feet long" in a sentence, this image comes to mind. Cooking books are the worst, with their teaspoons, cups, dashes, splashes, squeezes, sneezes and fasizzles.

There's always the 38 Foot Yacht from a few decades back.

As for the rest, it's just a set of measures. Use the right tools, don't worry about it.

And honestly, as I said above-- Mixing a developer is more about ratios than precision measuring.

Pieter12 · Jan 3, 2022

My recollection of European cookbooks (especially Italian ones) is there weren't any measurements given at all, just the main ingredients. Season to taste, some of this, some of that, cook until it's done.

Philippe-Georges · Jan 4, 2022

Pieter12 said:
My recollection of European cookbooks (especially Italian ones) is there weren't any measurements given at all, just the main ingredients. Season to taste, some of this, some of that, cook until it's done.

Yes, I made photo's for such a book, but is wasn't really about recepties (and how to replicate them) but more a research and discovery for the origin of products and tastes and how they match into a dish, which is actually the basis of cooking.
It was rather difficult to sell as people are so used to have everything sorted out for them...
http://www.photoeil.be/books/passie-and-smaak.html

US MEASURES

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