US/Canada Film costs

[larkis]

Is anyone importing film for the US now that the dollar exchange is basically the same ? 100 sheets of ilford fp4 in 4x5 is 139.95 at vistek in toronto while it is 85.99 at freestyle. Even with the government taking their bite at the border it's still cheaper, especially when buying a bigger quantity.

Any reason the distributors in canada have not adjusted their pricing ?

 

[rjas]

The Canadian distributors have always been ripping us off - I try to order from the US as often as I can.

 

[Donald Boyd]

Any reason the distributors in canada have not adjusted their pricing ?

Because Canadian distributors want to cash in, make more money? :confused:

 

[rjas]

Because Canadian distributors want to cash in, make more money? :confused:

And when you walk into their store and inquire about a certain product: "Oh we don't stock that, no one buys it anymore"

well, no duh, you are charging twice as much as freestyle, b&h, etc.

 

[larkis]

Wonder if they can keep it up

There was some news lately that the car industry has been sued for ripping us off with with made up exchange rates for a few years now. So a car that is sold here is always a lot more money than the US equivalent, despite the difference in currency not being that big for a few years now.

Not saying this will happen to film, but at least someone is responding to the car folks ripping off consumers. I think electronics will be targeted next. A panasonic plasma tv that is 2500 in canada costs 1200 in the US...

 

[walter23]

Because Canadian distributors want to cash in, make more money? :confused:

Smaller market for the stuff = higher prices, or so I was told when I asked a local retailer (the camera store) a similar question. Unfortunately the retailers can't compete with cross border shopping - according to this sales guy their wholesale costs are higher than B&H retail costs for some items (in this case some of the high end Canon lenses).

 

[Ian Grant]

It isn't just Canadians who suffer, it's the same in Europe.

There is one price for goods in the US and typically 50 to 100% more in Canada, Europe etc, regardless of the exchange rates.

With cameras in particular the Japanese sell at low prices and high volume to the US market, to get their production costs down, then sell much at higher prices elsewhere to maximise their profits. It's the same for electronic goods.

Ian

 

[Nick Zentena]

For years car price in Canada were cheaper then the US and people would drive here to buy cars. Now it's the other way.

Film has mostly always been more expensive here. Agfa used to be cheaper in Canada but that was it.

 

[John Bartley]

This idea that retailers can adjust instantly to the changing difference between the CDN and US dollars is wrong. There are several reasons, among them ... the products on the shelves now were bought before the US dollar did its slide, the contracts to manufacture the products were signed and the manufacture itself took place before the US dollar did its slide, and ..... why do Canadians think the the value change happened to the CDN dollar? From what I can see, the CDN dollar has not appreciated very much on world markets while the US dollar has lost value on all fronts. This would mean that the residents of the US (and those who shop "cross-border") are getting a deal, but Canadians have neither lost nor gained very much. In my opinion it's going to take a while for inventories of product to flush through the system and for manufacture and supply contracts to expire and be rewritten before any real price changes will happen and when they do, it just might be a price increase in the US that you see rather than a decrease in Canada.

cheers eh?

 

[Stephen Frizza]

I own and operate a Pro lab in Bondi Australia. I along with a small group of other labs in my position find it better to avoid the local importers and suppliers and order stock from America.

Even if we pay American retail prices, is much cheaper,more efficient and faster than having to deal with the Suppliers in this country. We often ponder this and wonder weather it is because of our small market or simply because we arnt loved LOL.

I wont name names but Ive found myself needing common colour paper stocks and the importer here won't have it even so internationally its regarded as a standard stock. They will tell me the roll will cost $600 dollars and be here in 6 weeks. Yet if I am to go to B&H as a random buyer I can have it in 3 days at about 30 percent cheaper even when including the shipping cost!

For being able to supplying my lab with the materials I need when I need them at a cost which is acceptable I say GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!

Do any other pro lab owners around the world suffer the problem we suffer in australia?

~Steve Frizza
The Lighthouse Lab.

 

[Mike Wilde]

US - yes, it gets this Hosers money

I was going to order from Mondrian Hall in Concord, local to me last week, to get 1 brick of 120 FP4, and a few boxes of RA-4 paper. I went into my usual camera store to by this film and they only had 2 rolls on the shelf. They (Burlington Camera) do support 35mm B&W quite well though, and stock 100' rolls.

The Mondrian rep said that the itme codes I gave him from thier web listings had all been obsoleted froom his listing system. He did suggest Plus X for the obsoleted to him FP4, which I agree generally works just as well, but when all of my requests were obsolted I was not going to hand him my business. I plan on an online order from B&H for this.

I also have looked at Ultrafine Online for paper and 35mm film. They look interesting, but you have to e-mail for a quote, since all thier online prices include US shipping. I haven't gone through with any quotes from them yet.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Beseler 45s Dichro head in Canada is $1,999.00 CDN, yet is $1,559.00 USD in the States (which is actually $1,511.00 CDN) a difference of $488.00 CDN.

I'll buy Canadian products like salmon, fruit and veggies, or things manufactured in Canada even if they do cost more, but I'd be crazy to pay around 20% extra after taxes for something that isn't manufactured in Canada at all.

With the Internet it's a different world, and retailers had better adjust or they won't survive. Maybe retail store owners will have to start living in humble duplexes like mine, instead of in the bigger homes in town, if you know what I mean...

Murray

 

[redrockcoulee]

When we used to have a retail store we sold Pentax binoculars. At that time after considering the exchange rate, we were able to sell them for less than the big mail order houses in the States. But it was almost cheaper to buy Pentax cameras from those same mail order houses than directly from Pentax itself. The distributors may set the prices differently for different markets.
And even though we were selling binoculars at less than the mail order houses in the States or less than London Drugs or MEC there were still "customers" who would come in and try to get us to drop prices to almost cost. And once you add shipping, credit card and banking costs, NSF cheques etc, it does not pay to sell at near cost so someone gets a bargain.
Unless you know the full cost to the seller and all the other financial situations, do not assume that the retailer is ripping you off. Most small businesses pay less to their owner than what you make in a good paying job and there should be a return on their cash investment as well. If it was all money in the bank than most businesses would not fail withing their first five years. It is very easy to say that if the business fails it is due to incompetence but if it succeeds the owner is greedy. I think that we have to wait at least six more months for the difference in exchange rates to really hit us at all the retail stores.

 

[Michael W]

In 2001 $1 Aussie was worth 50 US cents. Today it buys 91 US cents. This is a combination of a weaker greenback & the result of Australia being a relatively high interest rate country. I've been buying a bit of stock recently from the USA & Japan & intend to buy a lot more while this exchange rate holds.

I've placed a few orders with Freestyle & been very happy with their service. I like that their web shopping cart allows me to check how the postage amount changes when I vary the order. This allows me to find the most cost effective balance. They've also been good at letting me know if items are out of stock as well as answering my questions.

 

[thebanana]

Granted I only use 35mm and 120 film, but the cost of it is the least of my concerns. Maybe I'd feel different if I were a LF shooter.

Canadians are going through a bit of "sticker shock" just now, since the Canadian dollar is close to $1.02 in US funds. I expect some prices to come down soon, especially for bigger ticket items. These things tend to even out in the long run.

 

[walter23]

I'll buy Canadian products like salmon, fruit and veggies, or things manufactured in Canada even if they do cost more, but I'd be crazy to pay around 20% extra after taxes for something that isn't manufactured in Canada at all

Even before the US dollar plummeted it made sense to buy many things cross border. I got my canon 70-200mm zoom for $150 to $200 less than local cost (incl. shipping) at something like a 1:0.80 exchange rate, and saved about $100 on my 100mm macro. My large format shen hao is $1000 where available locally and at $600 from badger I'd have been a fool to not take it. However, I felt guilty about this because I have a really fantastic local store (the camera store) and picked up my 17-40mm zoom lens there for a $150-$200 premium over US prices. I value the store enough to have wanted to bring my business there for at least something, and I'd been fondling the lens (and a lot of my cross border purchased) in store to get a feel for it anyway.

I know that capitalism isn't predicated on charity, so this kind of thing can't keep a store in business indefinitely, but sometimes you do just have to suck up the loss and buy locally because the business you're supporting has fantastic customer service and other intangibles.

 

[Snapshot]

I've also felt that as a consumer, even before dollar parity, Canadian resellers are never price competitive. Despite general lower operational costs and wages, pricing seemed to always be higher. I understand corporate taxation is burdensome in Ontario but it doesn't explain the huge discrepancies in pricing. I would speculate the following is at play...

1) Canadians are not as price sensitive as Americans.
2) Decreased competition in Canada relative to the United States.
3) Onerous overhead in terms of taxation (Ontario) and government bureaucracy.
4) Significant impediments/barriers in importing comparable goods.

As a result, we are going to pay more for just about anything. By way of example, would you believe that wireless providers charge over $50 per megabyte of downloads in most calling plans? This is ridiculous and makes it the most expensive in the world.

 

[MP_Wayne]

Yes - earlier postings are correct in that it will take a bit of time for stock to move through from old priced inventory to the newer exchange rate reality.

However, having said that, other observations about Canadian distributors ripping off Canadian consumers also merit attention. It is very likely that we will NOT see much benefit from the stronger C$.

Very often, the distributors of film and other equipment in Canada are ONE or TWO companies (but usually one) and they play hard ball with your local retailer. The retailer is forced to source all (or most) of the distributor's product line from that distributor. The distributor is a virtual monopoly and behaves as such to maximize profits. The local retailer does his/her best to provide service, expertise, and such from their margins between their price to you and the high price paid to the distributors.

In the past, distributors could get away with it more, but with the advent of the internet and an efficient shipping system, Canadians have alternatives. But, unfortunately, the people in the end that lose are the retailers and their employees caught in the middle.

I try to support my local, full service retailer (the Camera Store) by purchasing consumables and the like from them. With our local support, they continue to stock traditional supplies for us, and although I pay a bit more, having a local source (and their expertise) is helpful.

As for equipment, well, I confess I usually buy used and the local retailer is really in that business as much. The local community purchases the retailer's ample stock of new camera gear and keeps the retailer going (as long as the general public does not get wise the games of the distributors).

Bottom line, the monopoly distributor model is the norm in Canada and only when they start to hurt will it change. Unfortunately, though, it will likely be the death of many good retailers along the way that will force any meaningful change.

Monopolized and abused in Canada...

 

[Uncle Bill]

I've also felt that as a consumer, even before dollar parity, Canadian resellers are never price competitive. Despite general lower operational costs and wages, pricing seemed to always be higher. I understand corporate taxation is burdensome in Ontario but it doesn't explain the huge discrepancies in pricing. I would speculate the following is at play...

1) Canadians are not as price sensitive as Americans.
2) Decreased competition in Canada relative to the United States.
3) Onerous overhead in terms of taxation (Ontario) and government bureaucracy.
4) Significant impediments/barriers in importing comparable goods.

As a result, we are going to pay more for just about anything. By way of example, would you believe that wireless providers charge over $50 per megabyte of downloads in most calling plans? This is ridiculous and makes it the most expensive in the world.

I think the first point is changing. I know a lot of people questioning the price spread on books and music and other consumer goods. I shop south of the border for Foma and Efke film which is not available in Canada at retail.

I don't buy the dollar was weaker when we bought the stock. I worked as a retail buyer in the past and I know most stores work on a six month cycle, so in theory there should only be a 10% spread not 20. Also since film is a consumable and if I was a retailer I would want reasonably tight inventory as to have fresh stock, pricing would be more up to date. I know if I was a buyer working for Vistek or Henry's I would be bugging the Distributors on net pricing.

As for point four, there is no duty on cameras and photographic supplies. If your shipment gets stopped and assessed you are paying sales taxes, even with that you are still ahead. The internet is a wonderful thing.

 

[William D. Lester]

I live in Windsor. There are no 4x5 films stocked anywhere. Some 35 and 120, although limited selections. No one will order from Kodak as they claim the minimum orders are too high and the minimum dollar value per year required to purchase directly is too high. Those films that are availble are almost full Canadian list prices which are considerably higher than those in the States. For a number of years now, I simply order my supplies from US suppliers. There's no hassle, it's usually got good dates because of the larger stock turnovers and it's arives within days - not months.

 

[thebanana]

Welcome to APUG, William