Upward trend in camera prices.

jrhilton · Dec 17, 2015

Taking into account yearly inflation, other than old lenses that can be used on DSLRs, I personally don't see many camera models or lenses that have appreciated in value (sure there are exceptions but for the majority, no). Certainly if I look at the Bronica and Mamiya cameras and lenses I bough used for good prices in the mid 2000's they are all cheaper now if I factor in inflation.

Are the items at higher prices actually selling in any volume? If you keep an eye on actions rather than BIN items on eBay I've noticed the prices vary significantly and the numbers of unique bidders on cameras seems much lower these days. There are a lot of great camera bodies going for very little money on actions that have reasonable starting prices!

Paul Howell · Dec 17, 2015

James Page said:
Not sure I see it. If anything, prices for film Leicas and Nikon rangefinders seem to be continuing to slowly decline. Nikon SPs, S2s and S3s, Leica M4s and M5s, all are much lower now on ebay than a few years ago. Ever looked ro see what a really nice Black F w plain prism is going for these days? About half of what it went for two years ago.

Prices for cameras that are thought to be collectable seem to go up and down, at one point about 10 years ago Kodak Retina III big Cs were very hot, then the bottom dropped out. There were a lot of Nikon F made over a very long production run, once gear is bought up the price will rebound.

blockend · Dec 17, 2015

Internet gurus are responsible for the steep climb, sharp fall situation. Someone says a Werra, or an F3, or a Fuji Natura, or whatever will bring boundless joy and everyone wants a slice. Having tried their latest acquisition the buyer becomes a vendor as a glut of cult cameras hit the market at the same time. There was a time not too long ago when rangefinder cameras defied market gravity, then it was Japanese super compacts that sold for top dollar. Both appear to have succumbed to reality in recent times.

There will always be someone asking twice the market price on ebay, but that doesn't mean it's what the camera sells for. Taking inflation into account, I reckon used Leica rangefinder film body prices are as low as they were in the late 80s, which is as low as they got in living memory. My suspicion is people are buying such cameras as a keepsake and aren't putting any volume of film through them, but are shooting with their X100s and 5Ds.

benjiboy · Dec 17, 2015

Since I have no intention of ever either buying or selling any more cameras, I don't have to worry about camera prices.

Aleksej6 · Dec 17, 2015

blockend said:
Internet gurus are responsible for the steep climb, sharp fall situation. Someone says a Werra, or an F3, or a Fuji Natura, or whatever will bring boundless joy and everyone wants a slice. Having tried their latest acquisition the buyer becomes a vendor as a glut of cult cameras hit the market at the same time. There was a time not too long ago when rangefinder cameras defied market gravity, then it was Japanese super compacts that sold for top dollar. Both appear to have succumbed to reality in recent times.

There will always be someone asking twice the market price on ebay, but that doesn't mean it's what the camera sells for. Taking inflation into account, I reckon used Leica rangefinder film body prices are as low as they were in the late 80s, which is as low as they got in living memory. My suspicion is people are buying such cameras as a keepsake and aren't putting any volume of film through them, but are shooting with their X100s and 5Ds.

Yes, internet guru make part of this process. But specially fashion trends.
In Europe Leica M3 is one of the less expensive Leica, althought it is the better and more enjoyable Leica M ever made. This is because today wide-angle lenses are very popular, so people want a camera like M6, with lesser magnification viewfinder. It is crazy. Another example is Nikon reflex, everyone want it, but could work the same with Pentax or Canon or Minolta models, which are cheaper but of same quality. In the Nikon reflex, it is also crazy that amatorial models like FM2, FM3 are more expensive than professional models like F2 or F3. This is for fashion reasons, people want the littlest camera possible and are not interested in characteristic like, for example, possibility of pre-lifted mirror, or better viewfinder, that are in my opinion very important in the long period use.
Mamiya C series is really cheap, Mamiya RB or RZ serie is expensive, because people buy this heavy stuff just for trying and decide after one month to resell it, so this item gain in price, althought just little people use effectively in real life. And so on.

ChristopherCoy · Dec 17, 2015

I think it's a result of two things - less "useable" gear on the market, and a rising demand for film gear.

I think digital photography has reached a saturation point, and more and more photographers are slowly going back to analog gear because the lines of "artistry" are so easily duplicated by mouse clicks. There's been quite a few recent articles on "why I went back to film."

Ashfaque · Dec 17, 2015

Some observations without empirical analysis (, even though I'd love to do one).

(1) When you count for inflation (nominal and possibly real), then in general, there is hardly any price increase in the used market. Of course, there are exception to this rule seasonal hike, rare items, etc.

(2) Hasselblad, Fuji, Kowa, and other medium format brand prices have gone down in real inflation terms. I'm not sure about Rollei MF prices though.

Ricardo Miranda · Dec 17, 2015

Xmas said:
Yes but allowing for inflation I'm not sure.
The Lomo people are selling Lubitels at silly prices still!
I can still get a CanonP and CV 35mm /2.5 for less than a Lubitel if I'm patient.
Only one other person I meet rather than surf the web with is film only & ok he is hybrid.
I see lots of people carrying film cameras but very few shooting.
A considerable number drop off at D&P labs.
It is pretty critical that Ferrani ship production film soon.

Yes, there are a lot of people carrying cameras as jewellery objects.
But, also some using them.
Seen last week: a girl with a Pentax K1000.

I don't like to mention it here as it isn't the place for it, but I do hybrid for the last year since d&p prices are so high.
My hybrid part is just like to take a contact sheet. That's why the picture attached is low quality.

I hope that Ferrania can re-ignite the E6 market or we might loose all E6 processing capability.

About camera prices, please reflect on this: Charlie, a trader and repairer I know, has commented recently that it is becoming more difficult to find bodies in good working condition.

Richard S. (rich815) · Dec 17, 2015

Ricardo Miranda said:
About camera prices, please reflect on this: Charlie, a trader and repairer I know, has commented recently that it is becoming more difficult to find bodies in good working condition.

Yes, exactly this. There is no increase of any significance in demand for film gear either from any trends or some blogger mentioning a certain camera, at least in anything but a very small short term. Also asking prices, which many above are quoting, have nothing to do with what's actually selling. eBay is littered with overpriced cameras because some seller saw a rare or pristine version of the same camera sell for a lot so they throw there more common or bargain grade examples on auction for a very high price hoping for some moron to bite.

Bottom line is supply. Make no mistake, ask any camera repair person, these film cameras are not being made anymore and never will be, they are disappearing either into landfills after they break, or into closets, or into our collections. A lot more breaking and never to be used again than you might think. The wave of people going digital and dumping their gear, especially the pros with all the Hasselblads, Mamiyas and Pentax pro MF gear is long gone. The wannabe DSLR shooters have sold off their nice film SLRs a while ago. There is less and less decent gear out there. Party is over.

John Bragg · Dec 17, 2015

Richard S. (rich815) said:
Bottom line is supply. Make no mistake, ask any camera repair person, these film cameras are not being made anymore and never will be, they are disappearing either into landfills after they break, or into closets, or into our collections. A lot more breaking and never to be used again than you might think. The wave of people going digital and dumping their gear, especially the pros with all the Hasselblads, Mamiyas and Pentax pro MF gear is long gone. The wannabe DSLR shooters have sold off their nice film SLRs a while ago. There is less and less decent gear out there. Party is over.

Exactly so !

leicarfcam · Dec 17, 2015

Ian Grant said:
I see film cameras selling regularly at much higher prices at the camera fair I visit compared to 6 or 7 years ago, and more than last year.

Ian

Are they really going up in price, or are you noting the set starting prices of the seller?

What I have been seeing is a huge difference between the asking price and actual selling price and the actual selling prices are much lower in fact about the same average as has been for the last couple of years..

leicarfcam · Dec 17, 2015

Sirius Glass said:
Good observation although KEH prices are down.

May be on their website. I haven't looked lately but their eBay prices have gone up.

blockend · Dec 17, 2015

leicarfcam said:
Are they really going up in price, or are you noting the set starting prices of the seller?

What I have been seeing is a huge difference between the asking price and actual selling price and the actual selling prices are much lower in fact about the same average as has been for the last couple of years..

A case in point: eBay currently listing a chrome Canon AE-1 with 50mm f1.8 Buy It Now for £84.95. Same combo in similar condition sold the other day for £31.00.

At the other end of the market, a slightly tired looking Leica M3, asking price £679.95, in the sold listings last month an M3 without the worn vulcanite sold for £463.
Those are big differences between hope and reality.

Sirius Glass · Dec 17, 2015

Richard S. (rich815) said:
Yes, exactly this. There is no increase of any significance in demand for film gear either from any trends or some blogger mentioning a certain camera, at least in anything but a very small short term. Also asking prices, which many above are quoting, have nothing to do with what's actually selling. eBay is littered with overpriced cameras because some seller saw a rare or pristine version of the same camera sell for a lot so they throw there more common or bargain grade examples on auction for a very high price hoping for some moron to bite.

Bottom line is supply. Make no mistake, ask any camera repair person, these film cameras are not being made anymore and never will be, they are disappearing either into landfills after they break, or into closets, or into our collections. A lot more breaking and never to be used again than you might think. The wave of people going digital and dumping their gear, especially the pros with all the Hasselblads, Mamiyas and Pentax pro MF gear is long gone. The wannabe DSLR shooters have sold off their nice film SLRs a while ago. There is less and less decent gear out there. Party is over.

Another horror is that some film users, even ones found on APUG, use digital! Talk about poisoning the well!

BradleyK · Dec 17, 2015

Sirius Glass said:
Another horror is that some film users, even ones found on APUG, use digital! Talk about poisoning the well!

Don't be so serious, Sirius! Poisoning the well? Checking the back of my D800 just now, I went from 12 October until last night (I shot the Christmas lights at Capilano Canyon) between shoots with the digital. During the same period, I likely shot something in the neighborhood of 35-40 rolls of film (35mm and 120), both black and white and color. And my experience last night probably underscores why digital is so often an afterthought: A fully charged Li-Ion battery netted me ten shots before expiring because of the severe cold (4C); meanwhile the F5 worked without issue...

ColColt · Dec 17, 2015

I think most here have at least one digital camera. My main one is the Nikon D7000 but it's been in the safe for a couple months now unless I need to take a pic of something to show on the 'net. Often when I do pull it out I'll mount a 50 f1.4 AIS Nikkor on it or the 35 f2 AI as I like lightweight primes. The one bad aspect of that camera is it's a DX camera and if I want a true 35mm lens I have to use a 24mm lens instead due to the crop factor.

I'd sell/trade it before I'd give up any of my film cameras. Some I've bought recently, like the F2AS, while others go way back with me and are old friends.

trythis · Dec 17, 2015

Warning: small sample fallacy ahead!
I started buying some stuff in 2013 and the only real change I see is the prices in really basic cameras like folders and box cameras. They were around $10 - $15 and are now listing in the $30 plus range. Even the ones with extinct film formats.

Sent with typotalk

Ricardo Miranda · Dec 17, 2015

Sirius Glass said:
Another horror is that some film users, even ones found on APUG, use digital! Talk about poisoning the well!

Lol

I don't have any d camera.

Theo Sulphate · Dec 17, 2015

BradleyK said:
Don't be so serious, Sirius! Poisoning the well? Checking the back of my D800 just now, I went from 12 October until last night (I shot the Christmas lights at Capilano Canyon) between shoots with the digital. During the same period, I likely shot something in the neighborhood of 35-40 rolls of film (35mm and 120), both black and white and color...

Likewise, aside from my phone, I've only used one of my digital cameras once this year. But, when I do use it, I make hundreds of shots at an event. However, every month this year I've put rolls of film through my cameras.

... A fully charged Li-Ion battery netted me ten shots before expiring because of the severe cold (4C); meanwhile the F5 worked without issue...

4C is hardly severe cold; even 4F isn't severe. I suspect your battery has a problem. My Nikon EN EL3e battery (1400+ mAh) will give me hundreds of shots in cold weather. There was a notable report in Luminous Landscape where the D700's worked fine in Antarctica.

Truzi · Dec 17, 2015

ColColt said:
I think most here have at least one digital camera.

I'm one who doesn't. My phone has a camera... but it's not even my phone; I get it as part of my job. I only use the camera for quick shots to show something (or to read a serial number where I cannot fit my head). I did buy one of those CVS "single-use" digital cameras, just to see if I could re-use it - I was able to. It was basically just a toy to me (I did the same with a single-use camcorder).

Sirius Glass · Dec 18, 2015

ColColt said:
I think most here have at least one digital camera.

I have one in the cell phone that I do not know how to download. Besides I do not do texting.

I have one that I bought to use up credit at a store. I don't even remember using it. My girl friend used it once about a year ago. It is just so decadent, like having an ice cream maker that has an electric motor instead of a hand crank. <<barf>>

pbromaghin · Dec 18, 2015

I have my wife's old digital camera. It's a LEICA! I hardly ever use it. It's just no fun. My pics with it can't compare with what she got out of it, nor can they compare with what I get out of my antique film cameras. She knows nothing at all about photography, but has a very natural sense of composition.

Sean Mac · Dec 18, 2015

My phone is the only digicam I own too.

Used a OM2n with a series one zoom yesterday to take pictures of a lens I'm thinking of selling.

At 49 years of age I doubt that there is enough time left for me to wear out the mechanical cameras I own.

Theo Sulphate · Dec 18, 2015

Sean Mac said:
At 49 years of age I doubt that there is enough time left for me to wear out the mechanical cameras I own.

American spy John Walker made 250,000 photos with his Minox before wearing out the shutter.

Sirius Glass · Dec 18, 2015

I see a greater rise in the cost of film, paper and chemistry [especially C-41 kits].

Upward trend in camera prices.

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