Upgrading my RB67 - from C lenses to KL

Doc W · Jul 5, 2016

I have a Mamiya RB67 Pro SD with a very old 90mm NB, a 127mm C, and a 180mm C. I have been told that the shutter on the 90mm cannot be made any more accurate than it is now (and it is not that accurate in the first place). So, I am thinking of upgrading to a KL lens, at least for the 90mm, which is the one I use the most. KL lenses are also newer and thus likely to have more life left in them. Both my 127mm and 180mm have reasonably accurate shutters.

However, I have a chance to buy a 180mm KL from the same vendor and thus save on shipping. I guess I just need to be convinced that the KL is that much better than the C.

Comments?

mweintraub · Jul 5, 2016

The optical formula is different. The K/L version is the same as the RZ version. The RZ version is amazing, therefore: I can only say that the K/L is good.

C: http://rb67.helluin.org/lenses/180mm-f4-5c/
K/L: http://rb67.helluin.org/lenses/kl-180mm-f4-5l-a/

Doc W · Jul 7, 2016

Thanks for this. I am a little surprised that there are so few RB67 users here! Or at least, so few who are faced with the C vs KL dilemma. In any case, the seller made me an offer I couldn't refuse so I got both lenses. Now I have my fingers crossed that they make it here before the impending postal strike.

MattKing · Jul 7, 2016

Doc W said:
Thanks for this. I am a little surprised that there are so few RB67 users here! Or at least, so few who are faced with the C vs KL dilemma. In any case, the seller made me an offer I couldn't refuse so I got both lenses. Now I have my fingers crossed that they make it here before the impending postal strike.

It is probably more that very few users of the C lenses feel the need to replace them with the K/L lenses - at least not due to issues of optical quality.

I have one K/L - a 180mm lens I bought new when KEH was selling them at ridiculously low prices - and it doesn't make me want to replace any of my C lenses.

Trail Images · Jul 7, 2016

Hmmmm, I've had nothing but C lenses, ranging 37 to 180mm, and I've yet to find any issues with them with regard to image quality. I've had a few sticky shutters over time, but careful CLA's by KEH brought them back on track. Good luck with your newer KL units.

M Carter · Jul 7, 2016

Maybe it's a value issue... there are tons of c and non-c lenses out there, KL was an interim thing between RB and RZ and they seem much rarer than anything else (except for APO's).

I have a mix of c and non-c... mostly non-c in fact, but I don't do color, and louping new negs is still a rush on the light box, the detail and almost three dimensional quality still makes me go "whooooo..."

Even when I used my RB commercially for catalogs and fashion, on-figure and still life with Ektachrome... I never felt anything was lacking, plenty of detail and great color, c or non-c.

For problem shutters, a CLA usually works wonders. Paul Ron talked me through a teardown and cleaning via PM here - I expected to have a pile of junk lens parts, but I'll be damned, it works! Paul's our resident RB teardown expert - he's stated here (as I recall) that RZ shutters aren't worth working on, too much plastic compared to the RB stuff, which are pretty robust. If you have a spanner, it's easy to get many elements off for dusting or cleaning fungus, even if you don't go down to the shutter guts.

Doc W · Jul 7, 2016

CLA is a problem for me. The only place is town is, in my opinion, not really interested and really expensive, so I have to drive or ship to Montreal or Toronto, with no real guarantee. I used to use Paul Ebel in the US who is very good and very dependable, but the Canadian dollar is still too low. And as I said, the last time I tried to get a CLA on my 90mm, I was told it was as close as it was ever going to be. On top of that, most RB lenses seem to be dirt cheap, cheaper in fact than a CLA. So I told the vendor that if the shutter speeds were not really close, I would be sending them back.

Thanks for the responses. I think if I had these a few days ago, I would not have bought the 180mm. On the other hand, now I will be able to do a comparison and publish the results here!

TheToadMen · Jul 8, 2016

I'm a RB67 user with C-lenses. The aren't that much K/L lenses offered here so I have no experience with these lenses.
All I now about these K/L lenses is this from the internet.

I love using my RB67 and I like (there was a url link here which no longer exists) very much. I'm looking for a decent 65 mm lens - maybe a K/L version sometimes?

Doc W · Jul 8, 2016

TheToadMen said:
I'm a RB67 user with C-lenses. The aren't that much K/L lenses offered here so I have no experience with these lenses.
All I now about these K/L lenses is this from the internet.

I love using my RB67 and I like (there was a url link here which no longer exists) very much. I'm looking for a decent 65 mm lens - maybe a K/L version sometimes?

Hi Bert. I lived in Utrecht for a couple of years a loooong time ago. I will do some comparison tests on the 180mm when I get it. Like I said, I probably don't need it but at least it will be interesting to do a comparison.

Theo Sulphate · Jul 8, 2016

Doc W said:
Thanks for this. I am a little surprised that there are so few RB67 users here! Or at least, so few who are faced with the C vs KL dilemma. ...

There are quite a few RB67 fans here. All my lenses, from 50mm to 180mm are C, so I just use what I already have.

Neil Grant · Jul 10, 2016

I think the reputed frailty of the K/L lenses compared to the earlier C versions may have made users cautious of upgrading - also maybe the change of cosmetic styling. (uniformity can be important to some). I rather like the idea of a K/L 180 instead of the 180 C - it should work better 'into the light' because of it's simpler 'Tessar' construction. But I think I'll stay with what I have. I recently added a 127 C to my collection - and I chose this over the more optically complex K/L.
There never was a K/L 50 - so users just had to make do with the 50C - the most compromised of the C lenses. Never a 110 K/L either - this was reserved for the RZ - but surely should have been possible for the RB and may have attracted a lot of interest.

Doc W · Jul 13, 2016

I just got the lenses in the mail today and will do some testing soon. The first thing I noticed, when I was testing shutters, was a little "ping" when firing the shutter. My C lenses don't do that.

TheToadMen · Jul 14, 2016

Doc W said:
... The first thing I noticed, when I was testing shutters, was a little "ping" when firing the shutter. My C lenses don't do that.

Is that a good ping or a bad ping ???

Alan Klein · Jul 14, 2016

Another RB67 user here. I've got C's in 50, 180 and 360 and I think my 90 predates the C but takes great shots. I've heard the KL's are sharper, but I thought they didn't work on all models of the RB67. Anyway, enjoy your new lenses.

Upgrading my RB67 - from C lenses to KL

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