Unusual TLR on the bay

choiliefan · Jun 20, 2021

https://www.ebay.com/itm/234057354417?hash=item367ee7ccb1:g:~ZsAAOSwcCNgzciC

Dan Fromm · Jun 20, 2021

Interesting. Nothing in the listing's photos says "Strand." And http://www.collection-appareils.fr/general/html/listeS_imagettes.php has no entry for Strand.

choiliefan · Jun 20, 2021

Seller says Strand is a typo.
He meant "Strange".
Lenses and mounts look like ones from a Goerz Anshutz Ango.

Ian Grant · Jun 20, 2021

Well it's no earlier than 1904 when Goerz first used the Dagor brand name, and checking there were at least 8 British TLR cameras by 1898, the first made in 1895. So one would expect similar German cameras.

Ian

choiliefan · Jun 20, 2021

The film back says Rollex Patent.
Is that a German brand?

macfred · Jun 20, 2021

choiliefan said:
The film back says Rollex Patent.
Is that a German brand?

I always thought the Rollex film backs were /are a Linhof product ...

AgX · Jun 20, 2021

Me too...

However the early models called "Rollex Patent" were made by Balda.

xya · Jun 20, 2021

choiliefan said:
The film back says Rollex Patent.
Is that a German brand?

AFAIK rollex was a german brand indeed, it was balda who made these in the old days. and yes, linhof and plaubel made them quite known. the super rollex were linhof, I don't know if these are re-branded.

the roll film back seems to be integral part of the camera. 120 roll film and rollex backs became popular after 1915, when a court ruling stated that kodak was neither the inventor of roll film nor that any of their pretended patents were valid.

Ian Grant · Jun 20, 2021

Rollex became part of Linhof after WWII, and Rada became part of Plaubel. So the answer to the OP is yes a German brand, however I suspect the Rollex back was added later as I seem to rember seeing them in the New Goods section of a 1920's British Journal Photographic Almanac, so I'd suspect originally it use 6.5x9 plate holders, a film pack, or a different roll film holder. Just a quick check and itappears Rollex backs seem to have been itroduced around 1929, they are in the 1930 BJPA and may have been made by C. Niethold A.G.

The Ebay seller states it's a prototype and he may well be right as there's very distinct similarities to the Goerz Anschutz Stereoscopic camera in terms of the linkage and way mounted etc.

Ian

AgX · Jun 20, 2021

Ian Grant said:
Rollex became part of Linhof after WWII.

No. Balda in Dresden was split after the war. A spin-off also under the name Balda was founded in West-Germany in Westphalia. The Dresden plant got nationalized and renamed to Belca.

I see no connection to Linhof other that Linhof used the Rollex name for their backs postwar too.

Ian Grant · Jun 20, 2021

AgX said:
I see no connection to Linhof other that Linhof used the Rollex name for their backs postwar too.

Rollex was a registered trade name, Linhof definitely took over production after WWII, I have a 9x12 fit Rollex 6x9 back made for a Linhof Technika and similar flat edged fit 9x12 backs made befire or during WWII. It's worth remembering one of Linhofs major shareholders/owners also had a large stake in Compur and that might have beeen similar with Rollex. That's why Linhof had customised Compur shutters after WWII.

Also remember that the German LF camera industry (like all other industries) was fbeing aided by the Marshall plan and had to adopted newer International Standards, so with regards to cameras themselves Germany could keep using for example 9x12 shhet film but the DDS film olders had to be interchageable with the US 5x4 DDS holders, So in that respect both Rollex and Rada holders needed a re-vamp but WWII had brought new lighter aluminium alloys and technologies,

Speaking as an Industrial Archaeologist, I have records of accounts from around 1665 to 1679 for the major group ofearly Iron Works around where I live. Camera/Photographic historians need to dig deeper to fined the inter links bewteen people and compnaies, not just catalogues and adverts, dig out the financal records if they still exist. In Germany they probaly do

Ian

xya · Jun 20, 2021

Ian Grant said:
...The Ebay seller states it's a prototype and he may well be right as there's very distinct similarities to the Goerz Anschutz Stereoscopic camera in terms of the linkage and way mounted etc.
Ian

if I look at the camera, I would say that this is not a prototype. it seems to me that there was probably a a sheet film or glass plate version. the housing is well designed for a single plate camera, to which a roll film back was added. seen the popularity of goerz lenses and rollex backs this could well be non-german.

AgX · Jun 20, 2021

Ian Grant said:
Rollex was a registered trade name, Linhof definitely took over production after WWII, I have a 9x12 fit Rollex 6x9 back made for a Linhof Technika and similar flat edged fit 9x12 backs made befire or during WWII. It's worth remembering one of Linhofs major shareholders/owners also had a large stake in Compur and that might have beeen similar with Rollex.

You referred to Rollex as manufacturer what it was not.
And how could Linhof acquire Rollex-back production facilities as that was located in East-Germany?

Concerning being registered as trade-name, I thought so too, but to my surprise could not find any trace of a german registration.

Ian Grant · Jun 21, 2021

xya said:
if I look at the camera, I would say that this is not a prototype. it seems to me that there was probably a a sheet film or glass plate version. the housing is well designed for a single plate camera, to which a roll film back was added. seen the popularity of goerz lenses and rollex backs this could well be non-german.

Well that'swhat I said, however it;s Goerz and German, Goerz licnced their designs outside Germany and it;s not a Ross Dagor.

I'd ask domprototypes exists and appear on Ebay ? Well yes I think they do, I haev a Thornton Pickard shutter with a weirsd speed control, was boken now works perfectly but there nothing similar onlineor aywhere else

AgX said:
You referred to Rollex as manufacturer what it was not.
And how could Linhof acquire Rollex-back production facilities as that was located in East-Germany?

Concerning being registered as trade-name, I thought so too, but to my surprise could not find any trace of a german registration.

While ther were the various Occupied Zones of Germany after WWII there was still some trade between the Soviet Zone and the others after all Zeiss Oberkochen still had links with Jena until the Soviet Union clamped down harder around 1953 and severed all ties.

We don't know when Linhof took over manufacture of Rollex backs, it could have been just before or even during WWII, rather than us assuming it was after the war.

Ian

AgX · Jun 21, 2021

Ian Grant said:
While ther were the various Occupied Zones of Germany after WWII there was still some trade between the Soviet Zone and the others after all Zeiss Oberkochen still had links with Jena until the Soviet Union clamped down harder around 1953 and severed all ties.

We don't know when Linhof took over manufacture of Rollex backs, it could have been just before or even during WWII, rather than us assuming it was after the war.

There was trading between the eastern zone and the western zone, but this was about products and raw stocks. But no production facility left the soviet zone other than to the USSR, unless smuggled out, of which I do not know one case.

Yes, it could be that Linhof bought such from Balda pre-war.

Ian Grant · Jun 21, 2021

There's a simpler explanation, Max Baldeweg had taken over production of Rollex holders before WWII. When his Dresden factory was nationalised in 1946 he left for the West to found Balda-Werke Bunde. So Lihnof would have acquired the right from him. Rada had been a subsidiary of Plaubel for many years and their first roll film backs were made in 1920.

Ian

AgX · Jun 21, 2021

The patent ended in 1949 anyway.

Unusual TLR on the bay

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