Unperforated microfilm in ordinary SLR?

TophUwO · Jun 4, 2022

Hello,

I have come across some microfilm that I would like to shoot as I really like the contrasty look. However, it‘s not perforated.
Is there any way that my Pentax MX can handle it?
If not, can‘t I just buy a second 35mm SLR for super cheap and grind away the sprocket teeth? Will this work at least?

Thank you for helping me.

Have a nice weekend!

AgX · Jun 4, 2022

The MX transports the film via the sprocket wheel.

You could give it a careful try by inserting the film the normal way and transport. The film-lead over the sprockets varies between camera models and in your case there are no guiding rollers pressing the film onto the sprocket wheel. But then of course the friction coupling at the take-up spindle must not slip.
If this does not work, the next try would be cutting off the teeth from the sprocket wheel and try again.
If still not transporting, block the friction coupling, but then you cannot rewind the film anymore.

BAC1967 · Jun 4, 2022

You could use it in an 828 film camera like a Kodak Bantam Special, that’s what I do.

Paul Howell · Jun 4, 2022

If he uses a 828 camera will he need to cut a paper backing?

BAC1967 · Jun 4, 2022

Paul Howell said:
If he uses a 828 camera will he need to cut a paper backing?

Or reuse old backing, I do both. It takes some practice to roll your own but it’s not that hard.

AnselMortensen · Jun 4, 2022

Possible solution #1:
Use a medium format camera with some adapters to use your bulk-loaded 35mm film.

Possible solution #2:
Use a Lomo Sprocket Rocket...but in this case, it will just be a Rocket.

MattKing · Jun 5, 2022

Over the years I've seen a couple of posts about certain relatively recent 35mm cameras (with built in motor winders?) that can work with unperforated film. I can't remember which models, but I think there are a small number out there.
And yes, I know, this is the sort of assistance that frustrates as much as it helps.

AgX · Jun 5, 2022

The OP explicetely asked about SLR's.

Alternatively to his model he could look for more modern SLR's with PK mount* that transport the film via the take-up spool and neither use a sprocketed wheel, nor the holes for frame positioning.

*to retain a PK-mount lens collection he may have got already

Don_ih · Jun 5, 2022

Use a TLR, with the film wound in the middle of old backing paper.

Apparently, though, the Canon Eos 10 can use it. You need to prime the leader by punching a few sprocket holes, first.

AgX · Jun 5, 2022

Don Heisz said:
Use a TLR, with the film wound in the middle of old backing paper.

Apparently, though, the Canon Eos 10 can use it. You need to prime the leader by punching a few sprocket holes, first.

Buying a TLR or an Eos 10 with the respective lenses just for some unperforated microfilm makes no sense to me unless a large super-cheap stock of it is at hand. At least here in Europe such is available perforated off the shelf in retail for rather little money.

Don_ih · Jun 5, 2022

AgX said:
Buying a TLR or an Eos 10 with the respective lenses just for some unperforated microfilm makes no sense to me unless a large super-cheap stock of it is at hand. At least here in Europe such is available perforated off the shelf in retail for rather little money.

It makes more sense to grind the sprockets off a Pentax? He can use a TLR to shoot 120. He can use a Canon EOS 10 to shoot regular film.

AgX · Jun 5, 2022

Yes, the EoS 10 body is cheap, no idea idea about large aperture EF-lenses (most microfilms have low sensitivity).

Fresh, perforated microfilm costs about 5€ per 135/36, also available as 30m roll, both at retail. It thus depends on how many meters unperforated stock the OP already got to make it worth while to step into a new system, if that is what it means to him.

AnselMortensen · Jun 5, 2022

Ricoh XR-M has sprocket-less drive and takes PK mount lenses.
It may count sprocket holes to know how far to advance film, however.

AgX · Jun 5, 2022

If it counts holes, there is an optics (or even mechanism?) at the perforations level, otherwise just a sprocketless wheel metering film length.

EDIT:
it counts holes
see here:

https://www.photrio.com/forum/attachments/883f2189-16a2-4972-ad69-832e6a969b8f-jpeg.200837/

mcfitz · Jun 5, 2022

Some information here, read through for details, there are plenty, even though it is ostensibly about microfilm.

Film Hacking - the Microfilm Files

Film Hacking - the Microfilm Files: Microfilm has always been the domain of Spies, War Fighters, and Reference Librarians. Now you can co-opt the special properties of microfilm for your own personal photographic vision, but not after some work on your part. In this Instru…

www.instructables.com

myself, I've used sprocketless film with pinhole photography - and home made pinhole cameras.

reddesert · Jun 5, 2022

This is an OAQ (Occasionally Asked Question) here, and a search for "unperforated" may yield more information. For ex, see this thread: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/unperforated-film-with-35mm-slr.15758/page-2

From that thread some suggestions that were mentioned:
- 828-filmtype cameras with backing paper
- reloading 126 cartridges
- using in a 120 camera with spool adapters
- modifying sprocket by replacing teeth with rubber O-ring
- one type of EOS that doesn't use IR sensor and uses the backwards advance method (unspool-at-loading, rewind-into-cassette)
- Canon EOS 10
- Canon FTb (note: this does have sprocket teeth, but they aren't used for frame counting), possibly need to tape film leader to takeup spool.
- some type of Ricoh
- Zenit-E (may punch holes in the film for you)

I have not tried this, but my thoughts are:
- different users seem to have different tolerance for uneven advance; but the film is cheap
- many cameras gear the sprocket to wind along with the takeup reel (FTb does this, but so do many others)
- in some cameras the sprocket isn't geared but is dragged along by the film and cocks the shutter (I have seen this mostly in older knob wind cameras and single-use cameras, etc). This is unlikely to work with sprocketless film.

AgX · Jun 5, 2022

At a manual SLR frame counting is

reddesert said:
- Canon FTb (note: this does have sprocket teeth, but they aren't used for frame counting), possibly need to tape film leader to takeup spool.

At a manual camera there is no need for frame counting, as the max. advance is pre-set by the transport gearing.

Bridging so to say the sprocket wheel, if transport by the take-up spool works, just will lead to growing spaces between frames.

Huss · Jun 5, 2022

The Pentax P3/30 series slrs have manual film advance but w that P&S auto loading.

xkaes · Jun 10, 2022

There are plenty of newer film cameras that are inexpensive and don't use the sprockets. Maybe there is a list on-line somewhere. As mentioned, some are Pentax/Ricoh with a K mount. Minolta made some too, like the Maxxum 5 that you can find for $20 or so -- but if you have K-mount lenses, stick with Pentax/Ricoh.

James Guerin · Mar 21, 2025

Don_ih said:
Use a TLR, with the film wound in the middle of old backing paper.

Apparently, though, the Canon Eos 10 can use it. You need to prime the leader by punching a few sprocket holes, first.

You only need 1 hole punch.. you can see a tooth on the drive that grabs it. I've been shooting agfa copex in a canon 10s.

loccdor · Mar 21, 2025

A wooden jig or 3d print could be made that winds film a set distance per turn with a roller and has holes you could fit a handheld punch through. Time consuming, but shouldn't be a super complicated machine. Maybe repurpose 35mm film splicer parts? Just an idea, may or may not be practical for you.

dynachrome · Mar 21, 2025

I have a Konica Autoreflex T which was modified to use film without sprocket holes. The sprocket spool was removed and replaced with one that had a rubber covering.

r_a_feldman · Mar 21, 2025

I would think that most 35mm SLRs use the sprockets to at least position the frames, because the take-up spool does not wind on a constant length of film per turn. Each turn adds a layer of film to the spool, increasing its diameter and thus circumference. Thus, each successive frame would be a little farther apart. Might not be a problem in practice, but I have never seen a camera that does that.

Don_ih · Mar 22, 2025

r_a_feldman said:
I would think that most 35mm SLRs use the sprockets to at least position the frames

The take-up keeps tension on the film being advanced by the sprocket gear. Every frame advances the same number of sprockets. The advance would be far more complex to design if based on the take-up spool. So Dynachrome's Konica works by using friction to advance the film. Every frame advances the same amount of rotation of the rubberized non-sprocket shaft (not really a gear, anymore).

@dynachrome was it necessary to add a roller to the inside of the film door, opposite the replaced sprocket gear, to put pressure of the film for advancing?

dynachrome · Mar 22, 2025

I will have to find the camera and check.

Unperforated microfilm in ordinary SLR?

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