Uninformed (dumb) question about BW filters

HiHoSilver · Nov 24, 2015

I'm shooting alot more BW these days, have a yellow, orange contrast filter - and that's about it. I like the contrast from the orange on all our gray days in the NorthWet. But I've wanted to know more & find search results underwhelming. Are there reference sites/pages that would give a matrix of all the colors, shades (ligh > dark), their exposure adjustment value, maybe what different Mfrs call their versions, what the next best substitute might be? 'Searched globally & on this site & don't find anything like a reference page for their use. If any of you know of such a resource, I'd appreciate hearing.

Thank You all very much.

Dr Croubie · Nov 24, 2015

Here and here are good places to start.

HiHoSilver · Nov 24, 2015

Dr., Thank You. 'Feel a bit foolish - having bypassed most of the wikipedia entries. I went to one on photog before & it was useless, so I skipped them thereafter.
I appreciate your kind help.

AgX · Nov 24, 2015

Typically if a filter manufacturer used/uses a figure to designate a camera filter colour it is either the Wratten or the Agfa designation.

EDIT:
Not foolish of you if you see my posting. One Wikipedia article alone does not tell the whole story.

Sirius Glass · Nov 24, 2015

There are no dumb questions here. None of us was born with this knowledge, we all had to learn it somewhere.

HiHoSilver · Nov 24, 2015

Gents, You're most gracious & I appreciate it a bunch.

pentaxuser · Nov 24, 2015

HiHoSilver said:
I'm shooting alot more BW these days, have a yellow, orange contrast filter - and that's about it. I like the contrast from the orange on all our gray days in the NorthWet.
Thank You all very much.

This bit puzzles me. On gray days B&W filters have little overall effect in my experience. Both the filters you mention will alter some colours to a lesser and greater extent( yellow lesser and orange greater) but on a gray day when there is no blue sky the effect of filters is limited in my experience.

By and large most orange or yellow filters will render the same scene in a similar fashion. There isn't say an orange filter produced by company A that renders contrast substantially different from an orange filter produced by company B.

Most of the books about B&W cover filters with pictures of how yellow, yellow/green, orange, red and blue render the same scene.

Kodak produced a book called "The Magic of Black and White " which produces pictures of a boat's stern in a range of colours with red yellow and blue filters and shows the differences dramatically.

You have yellow and orange clearly but if you haven't got a red, yellow/green, green and blue I'd get them and give them a try.

Some films are allegedly more sensitive to certain colours. Foma is said show up sky and clouds without filters as if it were shot with at least a deep yellow.

pentaxuser

RalphLambrecht · Nov 24, 2015

HiHoSilver said:
I'm shooting alot more BW these days, have a yellow, orange contrast filter - and that's about it. I like the contrast from the orange on all our gray days in the NorthWet. But I've wanted to know more & find search results underwhelming. Are there reference sites/pages that would give a matrix of all the colors, shades (ligh > dark), their exposure adjustment value, maybe what different Mfrs call their versions, what the next best substitute might be? 'Searched globally & on this site & don't find anything like a reference page for their use. If any of you know of such a resource, I'd appreciate hearing.

Thank You all very much.

Living in northern Germany. I had the same problem;The only thing that worked(not even red did much)was to combineorange with a graduated filter or learn to like the sky whereever you are.of course, waiting for better light ehere the foreground is lit by the sun always works too.

HiHoSilver · Nov 24, 2015

Hi Pentaxuser, and thank you for your kind help.
"The Magic of Black and White" is now on order. It seems more broad than just filtration, but that's only better. My local shop doesn't seem to carry Foma, but I can get elsewhere. I'm fortunate to have a great local shop - wouldn't surprise me if they'd order it at competitive prices. Although we have alot of gray skies, they're constantly in flux, so there's often alot of drama in the sky/clouds that would be worth getting better at capturing.
Thanks again, Pentaxuser.

Sirius Glass · Nov 24, 2015

I thought that the color to black & white digital conversion does not look like film black & white. At least in the past there were complaints about that.

Dr Croubie · Nov 24, 2015

Sirius Glass said:
I thought that the color to black & white digital conversion does not look like film black & white. At least in the past there were complaints about that.

Well, it certainly doesn't give much resolution because of the bayer filter conversion (ie, a red or blue filter will only have 1/4 of the spatial resolution and green the other 1/2), and you don't get the nice grain from film, but for the "see what filter does what" purposes of this thread it's probably good enough.

The other thing I forgot to mention was to check out the (albeit, simulated) images on the product pages of filters at B+H, like here for yellow-orange and here for dark red.

Patrick Robert James · Nov 24, 2015

Here is the new B+W filter catalog which gives you some generalizations.

http://www.schneideroptics.com/pdfs/filters/bw_filter_programm_e.pdf

Here is the older B+W catalog that is better. Download it because B+W doesn't have it on their website anymore and information on the web is fugitive.

http://www.fotorembrandt.be/data/mediablocks/B+WHandbook_Full-1.pdf

I have an even older B+W catalog that is better still, but it is in German. I guess pm me if you want it and you can read German....

Hope that helps you.

HiHoSilver · Nov 25, 2015

dpn, on the software approach (PS & LR), I notice the channel mixer's effects, but for the life of me - can't figure out why one channel has a large effect in one shot (both sunny, contrasty) and not the other. I can only guess my naked (and aging) eye can't see the color casts that are in play.

crumpet8 · Nov 25, 2015

HiHoSilver said:
), their exposure adjustment value, .

I don't know if it says on all filters (seeing as I don't have every filter make) but exposure adjustment should be written on the filter itself. Or atleast it is on my orange and yellow

cowanw · Nov 25, 2015

http://ftp.elvitec.fr/Filtres_BW/FICHES-PRODUITS/
Here is, in my opinion, the best of the old catalogues. It is in French; I have seen it in English, but I am not finding it now,

Xmas · Nov 25, 2015

crumpet8 said:
I don't know if it says on all filters (seeing as I don't have every filter make) but exposure adjustment should be written on the filter itself. Or atleast it is on my orange and yellow

Yes but they are ROM values, rough order of magnitude.
If you have a land scape like one of Ansells you would do well to try three depths of yellow filter bracketing each filters exposure to ensure printable zone1.

Not all films have the same spectral sensitivity.

Jim Jones · Nov 25, 2015

I rarely use any filters except red and a polarizer. Yellow has little effect; orange may be a little better. Other photographers may prefer to be more subtle than this heavy-handed approach. The red is good for emphasizing texture and form in snow. Boosting contrast when exposing and developing film and when printing is another way of compensating for dull lighting.

Uninformed (dumb) question about BW filters

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