Unimpressed with Mamiya 55mm TLR

DavidClapp · Apr 30, 2016

After getting a 55mm wide angle for my Mamiya C330f I have to say I'm unimpressed with the corners. They don't ever seem to resolve, no matter what aperture I use.

Is the 65mm a better option?

chip j · Apr 30, 2016

All black Mamiya lenses were designed to be a little soft, as the equipment was made for portrait/wedding photogs. I sold my 330/6lenses because they weren't sharp enough.

Ron789 · Apr 30, 2016

The 65 is definitely better. I have both and tested them side by side, to find that the 55mm is indeed disappointing. The 65mm is a much simpler construction.

DavidClapp · Apr 30, 2016

chip j said:
All black Mamiya lenses were designed to be a little soft, as the equipment was made for portrait/wedding photogs. I sold my 330/6lenses because they weren't sharp enough.

The 80, 135 and 180mm I own are very sharp with great corner detail, very little to non existent chromatic abberation, highly competent lenses - then there's the 55mm. It's sharp in the centre zones but the corners will not resolve.

Did you ever own a 55mm lens? Was yours as bad as I describe?

DavidClapp · Apr 30, 2016

Ron789 said:
The 65 is definitely better. I have both and tested them side by side, to find that the 55mm is indeed disappointing. The 65mm is a much simpler construction.

That's good to read, was your 55mm similar to how I describe?

mgb74 · Apr 30, 2016

In any lens as old as your 55mm is likely to be, and assuming you didn't buy it new, you don't know how it's been maintained. I've seen people swap front or rear elements with the viewing lens. I've seen people take them apart and put them back together without really knowing what they're doing. I wouldn't expect your 55mm to perform as well as a 65-135mm, but you may have a bad sample.

Smudger · Apr 30, 2016

I have two copies of this lens. One is superb, and the other merely excellent. I understand that this lens was subject to considerable variation in performance, not uncommon in lens production.

Alan Gales · Apr 30, 2016

I just bought a C220 with 105mm DS. I'm considering buying the 55mm. From what I read on the internet it seems some find the 55 sharper than the 65 and others find the 65mm sharper. It sounds like they very a bit in quality. Maybe you got a dud as mentioned above.

tessar · Apr 30, 2016

I guess I was lucky. I'm happy with my 55, bought secondhand.

DavidClapp · Apr 30, 2016

mgb74 said:
In any lens as old as your 55mm is likely to be, and assuming you didn't buy it new, you don't know how it's been maintained. I've seen people swap front or rear elements with the viewing lens. I've seen people take them apart and put them back together without really knowing what they're doing. I wouldn't expect your 55mm to perform as well as a 65-135mm, but you may have a bad sample.

I had no idea such DIY happened! No it was a second hand purchase, it looks in great condition, but like you say I have no idea if it's been tampered with.

I only bought it late last year and I haven't used it that much. The 80, 135 and 180 are all keepers, great quality,so that's recompence... It's very interesting system to use so I want to stick with it - I'll look around for another or a 65mm.

DavidClapp · Apr 30, 2016

tessar said:
I guess I was lucky. I'm happy with my 55, bought secondhand.

Have you photographed landscapes with it, or any subjects requiring acute edge to edge sharpness? That's were my lens falls over. I have also been using it as a macro lens for flower portraits and it works very well.

Alan Gales · Apr 30, 2016

David, this is an interesting read. You need to scroll down for the info on particular lenses.

Dead Link Removed

Ron789 · Apr 30, 2016

DavidClapp said:
That's good to read, was your 55mm similar to how I describe?

I took a close look at the test pictures I made a while back:
At full opening (F/3,5 for the 65mm, F/4,5 for the 55mm) edges are unsharp and lack contrast with both the 65 and 55mm,
At F/5.6 edge sharpness and contrast is better, but still not very good and quite the same for both lenses.
At F/11 the edge of the 65mm is really good, while the 55mm is staying behind in contrast and sharpness.
Both lenses I have are in excellent condition.
In normal everyday use the difference may not be that big.... I made test photos with all my Mamiya lenses, same subject, same film & processing, same day, to find the differences in the extremes (full / large lens openings, edges and corners).

My 105DS is (in my case) really the best of the entire range, excellent edge sharpness and contrast even at full aperture; better than the 80mm.
My 135mm is also very good.
My 180mm is rather poor; maybe this lens has been tampered with... but it still makes fine portraits.
My 250mm is super: even at full aperture (F/6.3) it performs really well, at F/11 even better. I found that quite surprising for such a long lens!

chip j · Apr 30, 2016

DavidClapp said:
The 80, 135 and 180mm I own are very sharp with great corner detail, very little to non existent chromatic abberation, highly competent lenses - then there's the 55mm. It's sharp in the centre zones but the corners will not resolve.

Did you ever own a 55mm lens? Was yours as bad as I describe?

I had the 55, 65,80,105,180,& 250. After being disappointed w/the 65 & 80, I never bothered to try the others.

Dan Fromm · Apr 30, 2016

Ron, thanks for explaining your lens trials. What distance(s) did you shoot at?

Alan Gales · Apr 30, 2016

Ron789 said:
I took a close look at the test pictures I made a while back:
At full opening (F/3,5 for the 65mm, F/4,5 for the 55mm) edges are unsharp and lack contrast with both the 65 and 55mm,
At F/5.6 edge sharpness and contrast is better, but still not very good and quite the same for both lenses.
At F/11 the edge of the 65mm is really good, while the 55mm is staying behind in contrast and sharpness.
Both lenses I have are in excellent condition.
In normal everyday use the difference may not be that big.... I made test photos with all my Mamiya lenses, same subject, same film & processing, same day, to find the differences in the extremes (full / large lens openings, edges and corners).

My 105DS is (in my case) really the best of the entire range, excellent edge sharpness and contrast even at full aperture; better than the 80mm.
My 135mm is also very good.
My 180mm is rather poor; maybe this lens has been tampered with... but it still makes fine portraits.
My 250mm is super: even at full aperture (F/6.3) it performs really well, at F/11 even better. I found that quite surprising for such a long lens!

From what I have read the 180mm Super is the sharpest lens of all. The regular 180 is not so much but like you said probably nice for portraits. I've got the 105DS. I'm wanting the 135 for close up portraits. From what I have read I think the 105DS (a Heliar copy) and the 135 are probably the best for portraits. Of course I have not shot a 135 yet. I am fully aware of what a person reads and actual experience are two different things.

benjiboy · Apr 30, 2016

mgb74 said:
In any lens as old as your 55mm is likely to be, and assuming you didn't buy it new, you don't know how it's been maintained. I've seen people swap front or rear elements with the viewing lens. I've seen people take them apart and put them back together without really knowing what they're doing. I wouldn't expect your 55mm to perform as well as a 65-135mm, but you may have a bad sample.

DavidClapp · May 1, 2016

OK, it's not the best of tests and I am going to have to do a few more to get a further understanding.

Here are some crops of the images. The shot was at f8, the depth of field is a little confusing as there is a tree behind another tree that makes it look shallower than it appears, but its quite easy to see the lens is not resolving in the corners whatsoever.

The curving circular look to the bottom left and right corners is also prevalent. I never get this on any other lens... I will have to do some 'brick wall tests' or similar to assess this further.

I am looking into the top right corner and its seems to be far more resolved than the bottom right... hmm. Again its not an ideal subject, but any further opinions would be great.

Ian Grant · May 1, 2016

As the film grain is running out of sharpness in the corners I think you have a very different problem

I've had a look at prints made from negative shot with both the 55mm & 80mm lenses I had for my C3 & C33 and there's no issue with corner sharpness, I always found my Mamiya TLR lenses were superb, the 80mm came with the C33 so was a Chrome barrel, the 55mm I bought new and was a black version.

These test images shown have DOF issues so you're trying to read far too much from them. You need to improve the output so the grain is sharp corner to corner, I'm assuming it's a scanning issue.

Ian

DavidClapp · May 1, 2016

Ian Grant said:
As the film grain is running out of sharpness in the corners I think you have a very different problem

I've had a look at prints made from negative shot with both the 55mm & 80mm lenses I had for my C3 & C33 and there's no issue with corner sharpness, I always found my Mamiya TLR lenses were superb, the 80mm came with the C33 so was a Chrome barrel, the 55mm I bought new and was a black version.

These test images shown have DOF issues so you're trying to read far too much from them. You need to improve the output so the grain is sharp corner to corner, I'm assuming it's a scanning issue.

Ian

Thanks for the answer - it has me thinking... I scanned this using an LS9000 and a glass holder - so what you are saying is the grain isn't sharp in the bottom left (for example) so its an issue with film flatness? I am unsure how I could get it any flatter other than wet scanning on a flatbed...

Agreed, its not exactly the best of tests! I must reshoot another one properly.

Ian Grant · May 1, 2016

I don't know the scanner so can't help on that score. However whether it's a darkroom print or a scan the grain of the negative has to be sharp across the negative corner through the center to the other corners.

Ian

Ron789 · May 1, 2016

Dan Fromm said:
Ron, thanks for explaining your lens trials. What distance(s) did you shoot at?

All test shots were at infinity; my test subject is a church at 195 meter from my window.

BMbikerider · May 1, 2016

DavidClapp said:
After getting a 55mm wide angle for my Mamiya C330f I have to say I'm unimpressed with the corners. They don't ever seem to resolve, no matter what aperture I use.

Is the 65mm a better option?

There are reports from the past that these 55mm lenses were of indifferent quality, some were very good some were not so good and some were absolut junk. Why this should be I don't know but I have had 2 of them in the past and one was junk the other was superb. It is possibly all down to poor quality control or as we say over this side of the pond - Friday afternoon models.

paul ron · May 3, 2016

DavidClapp said:
I had no idea such DIY happened! No it was a second hand purchase, it looks in great condition, but like you say I have no idea if it's been tampered with.

I only bought it late last year and I haven't used it that much. The 80, 135 and 180 are all keepers, great quality,so that's recompence... It's very interesting system to use so I want to stick with it - I'll look around for another or a 65mm.

there are usually shims between tge cells that are almost tissue thin n many diy repairs ignore putting them back after destroying them.

swapping viwers n takers or swapping cells from other lenses is quite common without colimiting the lens afterwards. so many factors to consider when buying old equipment.

just looking at the front of the les... examine the coating? is it blue or straw?

Loren Sattler · May 4, 2016

I have purchased two of the 55's used from eBay sources. One was terrible, the other good. The first one was fuzzy over the entire scene. It was simply a bad lens. I have not used the second one extensively, but I believe it is good, but not excellent like my others. I usually reach for the 65mm which I consider outstanding. I also have 80, 135 and 180mm examples. The 80 and 135 are also outstanding. I have hardly used the 180 over the years (not because of quality). All comments are for B&W, no color.

Unimpressed with Mamiya 55mm TLR

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