Uneven Frame Lines

eurekaiv · Apr 11, 2021

I feel like every SLR I own suffers from uneven frame lines, and most of them vary between 1-3mm give or take. I've never had a new film camera, I learned on an AE-1 in the 90s and currently use various Nikon and Olympus bodies these days, so I have no idea if this would have been common when the cameras were new. Is this something that maintenance can improve or is it just the nature of the film winding mechanisms and their manufacturing tolerances?

shutterfinger · Apr 11, 2021

eurekaiv said:
I feel like every SLR I own suffers from uneven frame lines, and most of them vary between 1-3mm give or take.

I assume this is the space between the frames. A CLA will correct it. Uneven frame edges is the shutter curtains not moving smoothly which should be correctable with a CLA. Spacing should be even and edges square to the film edge.

MattKing · Apr 11, 2021

This also might refer to inconsistent film advance, which is a sign of wear or incorrect adjustment in the winding mechanism.
Which frame lines are "uneven", and by that do you mean inconsistent?

AgX · Apr 11, 2021

Would incorrect adjustment not lead to too wide or too narrow, but regular spaces?

Patrick Robert James · Apr 11, 2021

The only cameras I've had that had inconsistent frame lines were really old ones.

eurekaiv · Apr 11, 2021

Frame spacing is what I meant... I have no idea why I even thought frame lines would describe this.

I don't think the FA and FE2 have curtains, at least not the traditional cloth curtain, and they're no better than my F. I have a Spotmatic out for a CLA, I'll definitely be interested to see how that does if I ever get it back.

MattKing · Apr 11, 2021

AgX said:
Would incorrect adjustment not lead to too wide or too narrow, but regular spaces?

Incorrect adjustment of the entire mechanism, including the double exposure prevention mechanism.
Most likely in conjunction with wear and dried lubrication.
Anything that might permit release of the shutter before the film has been fully wound on.

shutterfinger · Apr 11, 2021

The Spotmatic, FE, and FA all have gear wind mechanisms. Gear lash and harder than normal turning force is the likely cause.
The FE and FA have vertical travel shutters, the Spotmatic has a horizontal travel shutter.

Huss · Apr 11, 2021

The only cameras that I have, correction - had, that gave inconsistent frame lines was a Zeiss Ikon ZM and a Contax TVS III. Both returned for other issues (Zeiss would not cock the shutter on a regular basis, the Contax's AF was defective).

Oh wait, my Lomo LC-A 120 is very inconsistent with the frame lines, but they all do that. Made up for by the very consistent awesome results.

voceumana · Apr 11, 2021

I've never had a camera suffer from this, including old ones. The first 35mm camera I used was my father's Argus C-3 and it had extremely consistent and narrow frame spacing. So close, it was hard to cut between negatives for filing. But all the 35mm cameras I've used, the spacing has been perfectly consistent. CLA seems in order.

Autonerd · Apr 12, 2021

eurekaiv said:
I have no idea if this would have been common when the cameras were new. Is this something that maintenance can improve or is it just the nature of the film winding mechanisms and their manufacturing tolerances?

I have a couple of cameras that do this. I don't think it happened when new, I think it's age, but as it doesn't seem to affect any other aspect of the camera's performance, I don't worry about it.

reddesert · Apr 13, 2021

At one point I used mostly two cameras, a Nikon F and a Canonet QL, at more or less opposite ends of the build spectrum (not that a Canonet is bad, it's just not a tank). Both bought used. I felt I could tell which negatives came from which because the Nikon F had absolutely dead regular frame spacing and the Canonet was less regular. Frames never overlapped but they got close. The only thing it affected was that I had to take more care when cutting the developed film into strips.

Some or many camera manuals advise that after winding the first stroke to seat the film on the takeup spool and closing the back, you should wind the rewind knob backwards to take slack out of the film. Then wind to frame 1. (I just looked at a Nikon F3 manual, for ex, and it shows this procedure.) I hardly ever remember to do this, or see anyone else do it. I'm not sure it would even be compatible with a QL=quickload mechanism. However, I wonder if that slack may affect frame spacing.

eurekaiv · Apr 13, 2021

reddesert said:
Some or many camera manuals advise that after winding the first stroke to seat the film on the takeup spool and closing the back, you should wind the rewind knob backwards to take slack out of the film. Then wind to frame 1. (I just looked at a Nikon F3 manual, for ex, and it shows this procedure.) I hardly ever remember to do this, or see anyone else do it. I'm not sure it would even be compatible with a QL=quickload mechanism. However, I wonder if that slack may affect frame spacing.

I always do this. After processing a roll or two in college that hadn’t been taken up properly, I learned to watch the rewind knob when loading film to make sure it was turning with the film advance, and I’ve never rid myself of the habit.

I don’t consider this frame spacing issue important enough to warrant having cameras that are otherwise fuctioning as well as I need (or expect) them to, CLAd. But it’s good to know it’s something that should get taken care of with some maintenance. It’s basically only a minor annoyance when trying to batch scan files in a negative carrier and a couple images don’t line up well with the frame dividers.

shutterfinger · Apr 13, 2021

eurekaiv said:
I don’t consider this frame spacing issue important enough to warrant having cameras that are otherwise fuctioning as well as I need (or expect) them to, CLAd. But it’s good to know it’s something that should get taken care of with some maintenance.

The film advance should operate with a light to light medium pressure on the wind lever and it should operate silky smooth throughout the wind operation. Medium hard to hard pressure to operate the wind lever and the wind operation being rough needs attention..

Uneven Frame Lines

eurekaiv

shutterfinger

MattKing

Moderator

AgX

Patrick Robert James

eurekaiv

MattKing

Moderator

shutterfinger

Huss

voceumana

Autonerd

reddesert

eurekaiv

shutterfinger

Uneven Frame Lines

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency