Uneven development, light leak or what ?!

[Federico L]

Hi Apug!
I'm new to medium format cameras. I own a Hasselblad 500CM and I have been discovering this beatiful world of film since a year now.
I discovered a problem in some of my pictures, I attached it for you to see the problem: as you can see there is a dark band at the right side of the picture and both sides are really light. This is frame No. 2 in the 120 roll, and the first one has the same problem.
I'm using a Paterson super system 4 tank with 500 ml (17 1/2 oz.) of D76 1:1, and the film is TMAX 100.
My primary suspicions are:
- The film was not loaded in subdued light. (I loaded inside my car)
- A light leak that is notorious only when the camera and magazine is under the sun (like the place where the picture was taken)
- Uneven development
What do you experts think about this?

Thanks in advance!

 

[George Collier]

This looks like surge problems - areas near the edge of the film are developed more than the darker area, which may be under developed, hard to tell. I'm assuming that the film roll is in the up and down direction. This is not uncommon with 120 film. Lots of threads on this problem. You can conquer it with determination, and it doesn't seem to bother some folks at all. I find that I have to agitate quite vigorously during agitation cycles, to be sure I exchange chemistry with the inner parts of the roll (frame). For what it's worth, HC110 is more forgiving, in my experience.

Welcome to APUG!!

 

[Federico L]

Thanks for your reply George. Now there is two votes for uneven development, mine and yours. It never happened to me something like this so I assumed it wasn´t a problem with the camera.
This set of rolls were developed in a different place where I commonly develop, and I didn´t use distilled water like I normally use. Maybe that's the problem. I´ll continue with tests and I´ll search for more threads about this.
And thanks for the welcome! I´m glad Apug exists!!!

 

[winger]

This looks a lot like some of mine. Somewhere on here there's a thread about mine with lots of suggestions on agitation methods. It's more likely the agitation rather than the water itself.

 

[Vaughn]

Could even be uneven fixing -- with the edges getting less fixing. When developing 120 in metal tanks (especially TMax) I found that I had to give almost constant aggitation in the fix to avoid this.

Vaughn

 

[Ronald Moravec]

Surge is a internet myth and there is no such thing. In sufficient agitation is a culprit when the agitation is low and insufficient.The developer gets replenished around the edges but not in the center. Hence the edges get more development than the center. I find this can happen with used fix more easily than in developer, but at least you can refix and cure it. If it is a developer problem, try dye dodge the thin areas.

When introducing film to developer, the wet/dry edge needs to start at one edge and proceed across the film quicky and without stopping or backtracking. This may mean you have to drop the loaded reel into a tank prefilled which is best practice anyway. Pouring developer in thru the top runs the developer stream over particular areas of the film and they can get over developed. It is not as much a problem with single reel stainles tanks but can happen. That is why large tanks were furnished with a lift rod. Plastic tanks with a funnel so they fill bottom up thru the cap do not have this problem.

Agitation must be vigorous and somewhat random so you can not set up a pattern so some areas do not get replenished sufficiently or you get low density areas.

It is impossible to over replenish by agitation . Control contrast with the clock, not trying to be gentle with the agitation, and you will be better off.

Look up J78 publication on Kodak site on D76. It says 5 to 7 inversions in 5 sec. There are other schemes that also work. A twist and invert 2 times in 30 sec is decent. A two reel tank with only one one film on the bottom reel and only enough liquid to cover the film is foolproof. A plastic tank with a lot of room in the top provides the same agitation. Do not over fill or the developer can not move and you get no agitation.

When only one edge is less dense, you can alway suspect an underfill so the film is only partially submerged when at rest. Measure the amount with water with the cap off, no film, and use that amount or a shade more.

Good luck to you

 

[JMcLaug351]

Ronald, I've been experimenting with different agitation methods using stainless reels and tanks. Using less than full tanks and full tanks. Using different times and even using no agitation at all. I'd be interested to see your results. Could you put some examples of your work in the gallery? I've had a lot of different results and have learned how important agitation is. Thanks
JOHN

 

[Federico L]

Wow! Those are answers!
I was reviewing what happened that day, and I can say that due to the high contrast in the scenes I decided to shorten the developing time with a more gentle agitation. I think that is the problem like Ronald says. So, the rule: Contrast control = Time. I am looking for the J78 publication about D76 (I read it, but obviously I forgot about the inversions).
Thank very much to all of you guys for helping me this way to find the solution. I wish I could help somebody else this way in the near future.

 

[Ronald Moravec]

Sorry, I am not a pay member so I can`t even view the gallery. I can assure you I am very particular and will not accept anything less than perfect results. I have tried many tanks and agitation schemes and they all work if you don`t break one of my "rules". The problem is people tend to invent or shortcut and get a bad result. Then if you think carefully, you realize you broke a rule. Of course it is too late.

One time I mentored a person half the Unites States away who was having trouble. I sent him a text book, Lootens on Enlarging", had him develope some film, make a print and send both to me. We went back and forth around a dozen time and I reprinted some of his negs so he could realize the potential. He got so he could fly on his own.

I have been into digital for around 3 years now with just a little monochrome film thrown in. Digital color is wonderful and I can get better results than I could from 35mm color, APS sensors are about like shooting Hasselblad. My full frame Nikon is close to 4x5. They are amazing. I am not sold on digital monochrome. I bought a nearly mint Nikon F2A yesterday and was doing a test run just now. It is around 20 in Chicago and my hands are cold. The film is coming to room temp and I will go develope it. D76 home brew, Same Nikkor tank amd reels I had since 1965.

I have worked in 4x5 and the rules are still the same to getting nice smooth development.

I have some junk on Photobucket that I hot link to for Nikon Cafe because they do not accept images. There is also a frozen Flicker account they suspended because I was supposed to get a lifetime pro account and they renigged. I wont pay. Can afford to, just won`t on principle. There uploads are slow as mollasis in winter, like 3/5 min for a low rez 3x5. They claim it is SBC Global, but everyone elses uploads fine. It is a Flickr problem.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/18534140@N04/

finally got into Flickr. There is a bunch of family vacation pics intersperced with some landscape photos.

They pulled off a bunch of my photos.

Photobucket lost my password. I will go develope the F2 nikon test and maybe there will be something there.

 

[Murray Kelly]

Reminds me of the FED-2 films I've been getting lately. Lighter along the bottom (top of the frame in the camera). I think you have a small light leak problem.
I have been known to be wrong!
Murray

 

[George Collier]

Ronald and I have different terms for the same phenomenon. (Most of the threads on this forum that I have read call this "surge".) Doesn't matter, except that if you search this forum for the word "surge", you will find threads discussing the problem. (I just did and found many, including Bethe's). In these posts are many experiences and suggestions, many of which work for some folks, but not others.
As Ronald says, developer coming into the film from the outside can develop areas near the edge more than the middle, a problem I find more with 120 than 35mm, probably because the 120 is bigger, needing more activity to reach the middle. I tried many things over many rolls of film, and what I think solved it for me was very vigorous agitation, inverted with twists, during agitation cycles. I use it with Rodinal giving 1 minute of constant agitation, then 15 sec every 3 minutes and love the results. Even then, I have an occasional "edge over-development" (I won't use the word), but nothing I can't handle in printing.

 

[dancqu]

An Endorsement

I tried many things over many rolls of film, and what I think solved
it for me was very vigorous agitation, inverted with twists, during
agitation cycles. I use it with Rodinal giving 1 minute of constant
agitation, then 15 sec every 3 minutes and love the results.
Even then, I have an occasional "edge over-development"

Just the method I suggested a few weeks ago; short vigorous
intervals of agitation followed by rather prolonged periods at
rest. At rest there is no surging. But agitation is needed so
there is no way to entirely eliminate the effect of surging.
It can only be minimized. I recommend a Hewes reel.
It's design should offer the least opportunity for
surging. Dan