Understanding Medium Format sizes

Jerevan · Aug 21, 2009

Steve Smith said:
I think it depends on future plans. If you see yourself going to medium format then you may end up doing 4x5 later.

Steve, I can see the good point in this and I agree in a way, but I am not sure about the "might as well buy the biggest gun they have even if you're only going to shoot mice" idea. Each one has to make their decision but sometimes moderation can help you further along.

2F/2F · Aug 21, 2009

4x5 is not the "biggest gun". It is a very standard-sized and common enlarger; perhaps more so than medium format enlargers. I would say "industry standard". When someone says "enlarger", a 4x5 enlarger is what comes to mind. When someone talks about a "big gun", a Durst or DeVere comes to mind, and/or a 5x7 or 8x10 enlarger.

No one is saying to go buy a Durst or Devere, or that the OP has to get a 4x5 enlarger; just mentioning that 4x5s are more versatile for not much more money.

This being said, I do not have one at this point, because I have a 6x6 enlarger that was given to me, and I have not actually sought out a larger one for my current home darkroom. If I was to actually seek one out however, I would seek out a 4x5 enlarger, even though I mostly print 35mm to 6x9. I just view them as a good "standard" enlarger, especially with the minimal used-market price differences between them and medium-format-only enlargers.

Jerevan · Aug 21, 2009

Yeah, I know 4x5" isn't by far the biggest gun, the DeVere 507 in our darkroom is bigger. The surplus Durst 1200 we have sitting on a shelf is small compared to this one. Availability of enlargers differs a lot from place to place around the globe.

Sirius Glass · Aug 21, 2009

I got a 4x5 enlarger when I was looking for a 6x6 enlarger. The 4x5 was the same price and in much better condition. I have wanted to get a Speed Graphic like I used in high school for the yearbook.

I print both 35mm and 6x6. If I found a 6x9 camera, I would not hesitate to buy it because I have the ability to process the film and enlarge it.

Steve

Chazzy · Aug 21, 2009

Paul Cocklin said:
645, which is 6x4.5cm, 6x6cm, and 6x7cm are pretty much the standard three sizes.

I would add 6x9, particularly if the original poster wants to use older cameras.

Tom Taylor · Aug 22, 2009

hoffy said:
Like this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/De-Vere-504-...ries?hash=item3ef7c15e6d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Hardly someone asking for this to be given away!:rolleyes:

Thanks for the advice. I cannot really see myself going much beyond MF. Money and space are the limiting factors. Nice ideas and all.

Cheers

I told myself the same thing when I went from a 35mm Pentax K1000 to Pentax 67II in August of 2000. Then a few years later I moved up to 4x5 picking up a used but mint Pentax 645N along the way (great camera!) to "replace" the 35mm.

A couple of years ago I was in the market for a 4x5 enlarger. I bought an Omega off Ebay which arrived damaged beyond use due to improper packing. Luckily I got all my money back including shipping charges. I then looked and looked locally and within driving distance for good 4x5 but none showed up. Then one day an I Sold It advertised on Ebay a Besseler CIIXL with 2 lens and 2 negative carriers in excellent condition. I bought it for $75 and paid an additional $5 to pick it up. A couple of months later a mint Besseler 45MXT appeared on Ebay a couple of hours away and I picked it up for $500. So now I have 2 enlargers and although the 4x5 is a little larger and heavier than the XL there's not that much difference between them. The regular Bessler CII and CIII's (not the XL counterpart) will handle negatives up to 6x7 and is smaller and lighter than the XL. The latter will handle negatives up to 6x9 and will enlarge up to 16x20 on the baseboard.

It would be a good idea for you to go to a school or darkroom with a measuring tape and take a look for yourself to see what would work in your setup. Personally, I'd recommend the 4x5 if you have the space.

Thomas

John Koehrer · Aug 22, 2009

All the 23C series will handle 6X9 negs.

Venchka · Aug 22, 2009

Beseler 23C several models from I to III plus color. Fine enlarger.

A 4x5 enlarger makes sense for the day you realize that medium format negatives are so small.

Mike1234 · Aug 22, 2009

I agree that you need "at least" 6x9 capability but I'd go a step further to 4x5. That will allow you to shoot 6x12cm using a roll film holder on a 4x5in camera. That's just my opinion. I like wider formats. OTOH, if you like 8x10 format then you'll probably be completely satisfied with a 6x7cm neg.

hoffy · Aug 23, 2009

Thanks for your comments guys. Much appreciated.

I have decided to let the enlarger pass. I can see your point about having enough to do pretty much anything. I think a 6x9 minimum is what I should be looking at when it comes to enlargers.

With cameras, I'm not so sure yet. I like the idea of 6x7, but I also like the idea of hand holding....I think I am going to keep a lazy eye out for a 645 format and probably head in that direction.

Cheers

Rolleijoe · Aug 24, 2009

hoffy said:
Howdy,

This Medium format thing keeps nagging away at me.

I am very seriously thinking of at least preparing for the jump to medium format.

The thing for me, I suppose, is that the end result will include printing my own B&W images. The big hassle is that I will need to upgrade my enlarger (not a big deal, considering the Durst CLS35 that I have only cost me $30 and will still get used).

To ensure that I get the right equipment, I just want to understand what the typical Medium Format sizes are.

Considering what is available for use with 120 roll film, what are the typical frame sizes? I have been offered an enlarger that does up to 6x6 (a Durst M606) and want to determine whether I am going to hamstrung myself by buying this one.

Thanks in advance

Good question. For me, 6x6 Rolleiflex is King. You don't have to worry about turning the camera vertically to capture another view. Plus, the majority of wedding photographers (of which I used to be one) rely on the square format for fast/reliable shooting.

That being said, I've added a Mamiya M645 Pro as a 35mm replacement camera. It's taken a year of testing to find a film which gives an acceptable contrast/sharp image. It's a perfect 35mm replacement; auto film winding, easy loading, and it quite the gem of the Mamiya company.

I've used the Mamiya 7 6x7 format, and found the image size unacceptable. The proportions are a bit un-natural. I do own several 6x9 cameras, and find them to be an ideal format, however the concensus picks the Fuji 690 as the ideal 6x9 format camera.

The down-side of 6x9, is that you can't change lenses. So, 6x4.5 is a perfect choice. Plus, KEH has a brilliant selection & reputation.

Hope this helps you out.

Don Wallace · Aug 24, 2009

hoffy said:
Like this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/De-Vere-504-...ries?hash=item3ef7c15e6d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Hardly someone asking for this to be given away!:rolleyes:

Most people who recommended a 4x5 enlarger mentioned something like the Omega D2 which is pretty much the Chevrolet sedan of enlargers. The DeVere in that auction is a Rolls Royce. That is still a hell of a good price for that enlarger. I lucked out and got my DeVere for 50 bucks so, yes, they are being given away in some parts of the world. Nonetheless, a good condition Omega D2 will do everything you need for a lot less money.

Rolleijoe · Aug 24, 2009

I use an Omega D5 with Omegatrol, and a color head. 3 Schneider lenses, and enough holders from Minox to 4x5. Can print up to 20x30, and have never experienced a problem with it. Some people prefer a cold-source head, and I've used one before, but just as pure preference, the D5 more than satisfies my needs.

Mike1234 · Aug 24, 2009

I saw a posting by someone selling TWO Beseler 4x5 enlargers for reasonable prices... maybe $200 each? I can't remember where but if you're interested, I'll look for it tonight.

WolfTales · Aug 24, 2009

I had a similar dillemma when I first jumped into medium format. There are alot of options but for good reason.

6x7 is if you want humongo clarity.

6x4.5 is good for most regular sized prints (8x10, 11x14 etc...).

and 6x6 is in between. When you shoot, you can keep the orientation in mind and essentially crop in the photo to 6x4.5 - so you don't have to keep turning the camera one way or the other....

It'll prolly take trying a few systems before you settle on one. See if you can borrow or take out loaners....

I have a 6x7 enlarger so it does all systems. I haven't seen too many new or modern 6x9 systems either and seems a bit of overkill. 4x5 is too big for me too heavy, especially moving around etc.... What a pain to not be able to get full functionality out of equipement due to weight!

Understanding Medium Format sizes

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