Under Rating Films - Acros 100 @ 64 or less and Neopan 400NC at 200 or less

I promise I've searched APUG but the answers seem to be always combined in a mix of other content.

Quick question :

From people's experience, and assuming the light is sufficiently bright to get the shutter speeds needed, what EI do people use for Fuji Acros 100 and Fuji Neopan 400NC in 35mm format?

I've used them both but always at their box speeds but many threads make reference to using Acros (for example) at EI 64 or EI 50 to get more shadow detail. However, I've also read that by doing this you run the risk of getting less contrast in your shots.

Do people agree, generally, with this idea of under rating Acros (it seems this is generally the case for all films, in fact)? Out of interest, does anyone have example images taken with Acros, especially one's that show it shot at box speed compared to EI64 or EI50?

(I recently shot some colour Fuji Pro 800Z at EI400 and got lovely results, but having never used it before that day, I wouldn't know how it looks at box speed!)

Ta

Ted

ted_smith said:

Fuji Neopan 400NC

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Ted,

Are you talking about normal Neopan 400 or the C41 Neopan 400CN?

I recently shot a roll of Neopan 400 @ 100 and then developed it as if it was 800; overexposure and overdevlopment. I found it picked up lots of grain and contrast. Quite an interesting look, but I'm sure it would horrify some.

I rate my black and white films to get a zone I density of .1 over base+fog. For most films that comes out to -2/3 to -1 stop (for 100 speed film either 50 or 64). So this isn't underrating the film, but simply accounting for my metering and development to get the correct exposure. Some film/developer combos actually do give me the box speed. So you really need to test it out for yourself. The contrast is adjusted by changing the development time, so loosing contrast isn't an issue.

For color the same generally applies, but the contrast of the film is more or less fixed (I don't think you can adjust contrast by changing the dev time without messing up color balance).

2 very old rules of thumb for negative film, still useful: "expose for the shadows" and "if in doubt, add 1 stop". Besides rating a film it is a thing of measuring exposure.

How you rate your film depends entirely on your process, from metering and exposure to development to printing. Learn the variables (scene contrast, type of exposure meter, type of developer, developing time & agitation technique, etc.) and learn how your materials behave. Most folks will tell you to pick one film and one developer and use those until you get what you want from them.

To answer your question directly, I rate Acros 100 at EI 50. I develop it in Pyrocat HD. This gives me the shadow detail and contrast I want.

Peter Gomena

Ted I take it that you do mean Neopan 400CN. This is the chromogenic C41 film not the trad B&W film which Acros is. I have less experience with Acros but found that in DDX it gave good shadow detail at box speed. I have no knowledge of Neopan 400CN but it seems to be like Ilford's XP2 Plus in that rating it at half box speed gives finer grain but I am not so sure that it improves the shadow detail.

If you mean the trad Neopan 400 B&W film then I have had no issues using it at box speed in either DDX or Perceptol. Interestingly Ilford quote no times for its own HP5+ at box speed in Perceptol but do give times for Neopan at box speed. This suggests to me that Neopan suffers less in a speed reducing developer than do some others. On that basis I'd be wary about believing that any improvements are brought about in Neopan 400 by automatically reducing the box speed to a lower EI but its back to speed testing if you want to be sure you have the correct EI for your camera, dev process etc.

pentaxuser

I've been shooting a lot of Acros 100 (actually Freestyles re-branded Legacy Pro) and have been rating it at 50 and souping in Rodinal 1+100. The results are satisfactory to me. I live in LA where the bright sun we have almost year round practically demands that films be rated lower.

perkeleellinen said:

I recently shot a roll of Neopan 400 @ 100 and then developed it as if it was 800; overexposure and overdevlopment. I found it picked up lots of grain and contrast. Quite an interesting look, but I'm sure it would horrify some.

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I'd like to see some examples of that, actually

I shoot Acros a full speed. As has been mentioned
development must be factored in. D-23 used Very
dilute with minimal agitation will give greater
shadow density while keeping the highlights
under control.

What is your development method? Dan

Using different developers throws a wrench in the work. Certain developer types produce full box speed, like Xtol or D76, and others like Rodinal you need to derate the box speed to get the same densities. A little research in the Apug archives should net quite a bit of info on these effects.

I think the answer to the question is probably, "Yes, if you like the look."

That said, here is what I have settled on:

C41: Fuji NPH/NH 400: 250
Ilford XP2 Super: 320

B/W: Acros (box speed 100): 80, Rodinal 1:50
Delta 100: 50, Rodinal 1:50
Neopan 400: 250, Perceptol 1:3

On the other hand: I don't shoot Delta 400 very often, but when I do I rate it at 500 and develop it
in Microphen.

Good shooting!

David Beal
Memories Preserved Photography, LLC

Couldn't agree more. A lot depends on the lighting conditions and how you must compensate for the contrast in the scene. If you shoot a lot of flat lighting, you may end up needing to shoot the film at EI 200 and over develop. Or you may need to expose at EI 50 if there is a lot of contrast, and adjust processing as needed.

I print on Ilford MGIV matte paper (and sometimes Fomabrom 111), using Ethol LPD (replenished) developer. That's a fairly soft combination. I use a condenser enlarger, which gives more contrast than diffusion type enlargers. Based on that, I find the correct exposure and development of my film for the paper to print well without filtration.
I have recently started using Fuji Acros, and in normal contrast and lighting I rate it at EI 80 when I process in Xtol. I also found that for HC-110 I needed to rate the film at EI 50 in the same conditions.

It's highly individual what your film speed is, because there are many variables that are unique to you. Try a roll. Shoot at 100, 80, 64, and 50 - process. Pick the frames with best shadow detail according to your needs. Now adjust processing until the rest of your tonal scale looks right. Two rolls later, you know how you must expose and process your film.
But you must print them to see the difference.

- Thomas

pgomena said:

How you rate your film depends entirely on your process, from metering and exposure to development to printing. Learn the variables (scene contrast, type of exposure meter, type of developer, developing time & agitation technique, etc.) and learn how your materials behave. Most folks will tell you to pick one film and one developer and use those until you get what you want from them.

To answer your question directly, I rate Acros 100 at EI 50. I develop it in Pyrocat HD. This gives me the shadow detail and contrast I want.

Peter Gomena

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