Uncoated Baryta Paper

J0B00

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Other than Photographer's Formulary, does anyone have a source for Baryta coated paper that does not have any sort of emulsion coated on it? Inkjet papers will not work. I'm playing with Collodion P.O.P. and it requires Baryta paper. I ordered a small amount from Photo. Formulary, but I'm worried that one day it may sell out and be unavailable there.

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks!

Andy
 

Kirk Keyes

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I've seen and touched Denise's hand-made baryta-coated papers, and they are really, really good looking.
 

Martin Reed

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Could you conceivably coat onto a fixed out & washed previously emulsion coated paper? At present we're dealing with several people who go this route for producing receiver paper for dye transfer. It might seem wasteful, time consuming & expensive, but it's the most direct route for obtaining a gelatin prepared baryta paper.
 

willrea

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I've also seen Denise's and I have to say I like the look of hers as opposed to the stuff from the Formulary.
 

Formulary/Bud Wilson

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Baryta Paper at Formulary

willrea said:
I've also seen Denise's and I have to say I like the look of hers as opposed to the stuff from the Formulary.
Click to expand...

The "Stuff" from the Formulary happens to be Kentmere Baryta paper, coated only with Baryta and never had any other coatings applied to it.
We have it in rolls of 35" x 100' and 15"x100'. We actually got it thru Freestyle when they where the exclusive importer for Kentmere. So the
"Stuff" that the Formulary has is a Machine coated photo base paper. This is not some "Stuff" that we coated.


If you like Denise Ross's paper better that is fine as I know she does fine work, but the only reason we have this paper is to make it available to photographers for various projects, as is most of the other products we sell.

Thanxs
Bud
 

Photo Engineer

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Almost all Baryta papers in the western world today come from Schoeller in Germany.

They are a hot press paper that has been heated and pressed in huge rolling mills that can produce up to 4 surfaces that I have seen so far. Apparently the paper also comes in several tints. This paper is identical to that used by Kentmere and probably Ilford for their FB papers, and is what is being sold by the Formulary.

I'm sure that if the market exists, the paper can be obtained and the Formulary will probably be the place to get it.

The paper that Denise makes is a softer surface due to the lack of the high pressure which is applied to commercial versions and therefore would have a different texture and surface gloss. The commercial papers that I have seen come in gloss, matte, rough and extra rough.

If you coat your own, you can coat on any paper type, but I suggest that it be at least 100# paper, as I have seen some 90# papers disintegrate during processing or washing.

PE
 
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OP

J0B00

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Bud, what is the future availability of this paper since Kentmere was bought out by Ilford? If its going to be unavailable soon, and the process I'm trying works out well, I will probably be buying up a good supply to store for myself. It'd be nice to know if it was going to be unavailable. I would have bought a bunch of Centennial POP before it disappeared, but I wasn't following it close enough to know what was about to happen. Thanks for providing this to those of us who need it!

Photo Engineer, do you know if it is possible to buy this paper in small rolls or cut sheets? If so, where?

Thanks for the info everybody!
 

Photo Engineer

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I would test the Baryta paper with your POP formula. Some POP - Baryta combinations don't work and some work but do not keep well at all.

The paper is not available in small rolls or cut sheets except via the Formulary at this time. Schoeller will not sell this paper except in bulk quantities of many many master rolls per order. Your best bet is to make your own or buy from the Formulary. I know that Bud has a goodly stock of rolls as he stated above. Look for it on their web site.

If you do buy rolls, beware that Baryta paper has a good "set" to it and must be precut and laid (pressed) flat for a few hours before coating due to this curl. A weight on top of 20 - 40 sheets will flatten them all out in a few hours.

PE
 

AgX

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JOBOO,

whe have here a 2 members at Apug, industrially coating that paper with emulsion. They would be the best source of such paper in smaller amounts in the future.
 

Formulary/Bud Wilson

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Baryta Paper


As I said above, we have rolls that are 15"x100ft., and 35"x100ft. We can sell this by the roll as is or cut a roll to what ever length you would like to have.
As Photo Engineer stated please make sure that this is compatible with your process.
As far as future availability goes, we got this thru Freestyle with a Kentmere lable on it. It was a larger amount than we wanted to get but to get it seemed important at the time. But as PE again explained this was probably actually manufactured by Scholler, as is most available Baryta paper. Now that Ilford has the Kentmere brand maybe Simon Galley will weigh in and tell us if it could be available from them when we run out of what we have, Or if their seemed to be a market maybe Ilford could package uncoated paper in sheet boxes as that is what they do anyhow?
Just for FYI, we have 16 of the 35" rolls, and 12 of the 15" rolls left. Which isn't that much so if you need or want some that is what's available. Just for FYI we won't cut this into sheets, we will only sell by the roll or partial roll.
Thanxs
Bud
 
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J0B00

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Thanks guys!

I ordered a pack of 10 11x14 sheets to try with the process I'm using and they worked wonderfully. I'll probably order a 15x100 roll sometime soon as I really like the Collodio-chloride emulsion.

The below small test print is from a wet-plate negative that was iodine redeveloped and printed on the Formulary baryta paper with Collodio-chloride emulsion (a.k.a. Leptographic paper, a.k.a. Collodion POP). The negative was just done as a test and isn't that great, and I reprinted it (see second image) darker to see what it would look like if I went farther.

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Photo Engineer

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There is the possibility that I will have a fair quantity of uncoated baryta paper in 11x14" size available to me in the near future.

I will keep you all informed as things unfold.

PE
 

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Federica

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miha said:
Here you are: https://www.fotoimpex.com/photopaper/non-sensitized-paper/
Click to expand...

thank you very much for the quick reply!
unfortunately the adox art baryta paper is not good for me because on top of the barite layer they have inserted a layer of gelatin, and I am looking for a paper in which there is only the barite on the surface. As for the Hahnemuhle instead, I contacted the manufacturer who informed me that all their cards are vegan and there is no animal gelatin. I am looking for a product that is equal to the antique prints on baryta paper with silver salts. I realize this is an extremely difficult request to fulfill! If anyone had other information I would be grateful.

Thank you,

Federica
 

removed account4

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Hi Frederica
Have you contacted Hartman Technologies ( Ilford ) to see if they might be able to help you ?
Forgive me for being confused. Are you printing albumen prints &c and you are looking for a paper to print on ? I do not think ( I might be wrong ) that baryta became a common ingredient in photo papers until the 20thC ( I only say this because I've done a few alternative / 19thC/Antique processes and always used Hannemule Platinum Rag or Bienfang or borden & reily "velum"...

John
 
Last edited:

Lachlan Young

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@Federica As far as I know, all baryta is Barium Sulfate (+ any addenda/ colourants etc) dispersed in gelatin/ similar colloid for coating. Any extra gelatin layer is there to enhance adhesion of subsequently coated layers. Baryta emerged in the early 20th Century to act as an extremely smooth barrier/ whitening layer to enable papers that were more economically manufacturable to be used for photo papers without fibres showing or untoward reactions between emulsion and base. Some papers seem to have had a lighter baryta coating than others to allow more of the base character to show. I would very strongly suggest trying the Adox baryta paper first before looking for other solutions. It's highly likely to be very similar to the Schoeller baryta used by Adox, Harman/ Ilford etc, but I think it's on a slightly different base weight.
 

dwross

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Hi Frederica. Welcome to Photrio! Always great to see new alt process photographers.

I'm sure I'm not the only one interested in the details of the process/question you are researching. The more information, the better the membership can help you. There is a LOT of experience represented on this website.

I've used the Adox baryta for silver gelatin emulsions. It works very well. As far as I know, it's pretty much the same product that would have been used a hundred years ago. The high gloss is from the calendering process. If you don't need a high sheen gloss, and if for some reason the gelatin overcoating doesn't work for you, you could consider making your own baryta paper. The baryta is in a gelatin matrix, but a gelatin topcoat would be optional. However, Lachlan's advice to start with Adox is very smart.
 

Federica

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Thanks to everyone for the valuable advice, they were all very helpful. I think I'll try to use the Adox card; I am also waiting for a response from Canson to understand if CANSON® INFINITY BARYTA PRESTIGE 340G/M² - BARYTA GLOSS can be good for my work. I don't have to reproduce an original print. I study the restoration of analog photography. I have to experiment with the action of some consolidating substances on the barite layer of some silver salts gelatine dating back to 1930. Before proceeding with the originals, I have to do some tests on the most realistic samples possible. for this I must have a surface that is only baryta and not emulsified. Thanks again for your help!
 

Lachlan Young

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@Federica It's also worth noting that, historically speaking, non gloss finishes seem to have been from the incorporation of differing amounts of rice starch in the emulsion/ supercoat at the coating stage - historical records suggest it could be used anywhere from 1g/l emulsion to as high as 30g/l.
 

Federica

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@Lachlan Young even as far as I know, substances such as starch were added to the barite layer to achieve the matte effect. certainly it is not possible to deal with all the cases at once, but I agree with your observation. fortunately the prints that I will have to restore are glossy. So I'm just dealing with this variant.
 

dwross

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Good luck!
One last point. Barium sulfate is a fine powder. By itself it isn't a coating. It is applied to paper in a suspension of either gelatin or casein, along with various other ingredients. There isn't a surface that is "only baryta."
 
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