Uncoated Baryta paper, Special order being placed

Anyone knoe anything about prices?

I am interested in 200 sheets 11x14 if the price is ok. Please post an email address and price because I am not calling from New Zealand.

Thanks
David

Dave;

Contact the Formulary via the redirection icon on APUG when it pops up.

PE

being not a Pt/Pd printer (yet), what is the main issue with Pt/Pd on gelatin? is it a too deep penetration of the solution into the sizing or is it due to the reducing ability of gelatin in relation to Pt/Pd salts?
thanks

Photo Engineer said:

I have been using Baryta paper (and advocating its use) for coating any gelatin based material and some non-gelatin based materials for several years now. I have coated cyanotypes and others, but Pt/Pd does not work as noted above. Unless - you put on a sizing layer to isolate the gelatin.

Baryta is made up of gelatin mixed with Barium Sulfate coated on DW photograde paper. I have samples of these products and am very very happy with them. I have posted prints in the Emulsion forum.

As for costs? Contact the Formulary. I have no idea what these may cost.

PE

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Well, it has been several years now, but IIRC, the Pt or Pd Oxalate reacts with gelatin. It forms a nice "gum" that looks like sillly putty. If you try coating on it, same thing! Ask one of the posters here for more information.

PE

thanks Ron!
so, the problem is something in between my two hypotheses I guess

I did quite a lot of van dykes in the past years (on unsized paper), using also oxalate (Mike Ware version)-so I guess van dyke supposed to have the same issue with baryta paper? what do you think? but yes, the best is the empirical answer

I think that I may have some VDB here that worked, but that has been years ago. Not sure. The VDB worked fine.

PE

As to pt/pd on Baryta paper, Craig Koshyk has a booklet on his procedures for doing just that (see Dead Link Removed ). I've only tried a couple of times with marginal results; but hope to try again with some fresh Baryta.

Just got off the phone with Sherry @ the Formulary, and I got pricing info:

11x14 100 sheets : $88/box
20x24 50 sheets : $145/box

If anyone's interested and hasn't ordered yet, do it soon, like today (1/25/2012) or tomorrow AM (Thurs., 1/26/2012). It sounds like they are planning on finalizing the order very soon.

--Greg

doughowk said:

As to pt/pd on Baryta paper, Craig Koshyk has a booklet on his procedures for doing just that (see Dead Link Removed ). I've only tried a couple of times with marginal results; but hope to try again with some fresh Baryta.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the shout-out doughowk. My book is now available as an ebook from Blurb http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/detail/2943388. The regular paper book is still available too http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/detail/1819950

The main issue with normal pt/pd solutions and the gelatin/baryta coating on fixed-out FB papers is that they don't get along very well. But if you make a few tweaks to the solution and the coating method, you can convince them kiss and make up. None of the tweaks are difficult or even very significant individually. But together, they make a huge difference. The main two are: A: adding some Tween 20 to your pt/pd solutions and B: using a puddle pusher and then a brush (or just a Richardson's brush) to really work the solutions into the paper.

Tween acts like a sort of peace-maker between the solutions and the paper's coating and convinces them to play nice with each other. The puddle-pusher and foam brush (or just a magic Richardson's brush) step is also crucial and requires some elbow grease compared to the delicate tip-toe coating of cotton papers. Anywho, it is all explained in my booklet, with photos. I hope to post a video very soon as well.

Edit: forgot to add. I've tried the uncoated paper from Formulary for my method. It did not work very well at all. The pd/pt solutions sort of soaked right into the paper or something..they did not get soaked into anything like the gelatin layer in fixed-out baryta paper. Whatever is left out of Formulary paper surface, it is something that my method seems to require.... is it a gelatin layer? Not sure.

Fixed out Photo paper used for Pt/Pd has the average structure below:

/gelatin coat/emulsion coat/baryta in gelatin coat/FB paper.

The paper in this discussion is as follows:

/Garyta in gelatin/ FG paper.

Both are hot press FB papers. Both are hardened to some extent.

Hope this helps.

PE

Similar to Craig, also had problems with straight Baryta paper for pt/pd - even with double my normal solution, the paper soaked it up without much effort. Then print had a grey vail after exposure, dev & wash.
Plan on sizing some Kozo paper for pt/pd printing, so will try sizing the Baryta. Also plan on using the Baryta for Collodion POP.

Mark Ostaerman uses this paper for Collodion POP and teaches it in his GEH class. Marvelous stuff. Talk to APUG member Peter Schrager who has made some superb prints using this paper.

PE

Photo Engineer said:

Fixed out Photo paper used for Pt/Pd has the average structure below: /gelatin coat/emulsion coat/baryta in gelatin coat/FB paper. The paper in this discussion is as follows: /Garyta in gelatin/ FG paper. Both are hot press FB papers. Both are hardened to some extent. Hope this helps. PE

Click to expand...

Thanks PE!

That leads me to two conclusions:

1. With my method, the pt/pd solutions find a home in the top layer(s) of regular FB photo paper. But only after the silver that was included in those layers when the paper was made is fixed and washed away. So the ideal thing would be to use a paper that has the exact same structure of /gelatin coat/emulsion coat/baryta in gelatin coat/FB paper, but without the silver (or even without the entire emulsion coat?). If such a paper existed, you'd not have to waste time and money fixing and washing the silver out.

2. Since the Formulary paper in this discussion does not have the top layer(s) of regular FB photo paper it doesn't offer a suitable home for the kind of pt/pd solutions used to coat cotton papers. A work-around might be coat the paper with a gelatin layer before applying the pt/pd solutions. Or you could try to work out some sort of emulsion, something like pt/pd + gelatin or some other substance in which the pt/pd could be suspended.

Just wanted to update this thread to mention that my order for the Formulary baryta arrived today. 1 50-pack of 20x24. Coated by Ilford/Harman.

I don't see it on the Formulary site, but if anybody missed the group buy, it may be worth giving them a call to find out if they ordered extras.

FYI...

--Greg

Same as Greg's post above, I got my Formulary Baryta box of 100, 11x14 sheets last week. After making a few carbon prints over the weekend, I can confirm that this paper is just as good, if not better, for carbon transfer. I highly recommend for anybody looking for a pre-sized, glossy fiber paper to work with.

That's my plan for it, as well, but it will still be a couple of weeks before I get a chance to use it. Feeling the surface, I had a little concern about pigment staining (a problem I've had with some other papers), and about a gloss differential between the gelatin and the base. What was your experience with that?

--Greg

Funny you should mention pigment stain, as I noticed a few key differences b/t the baryta and normal fixed out photo paper.

1. Baryta doesn't seem to stain from the dichromate as badly as fixed out paper.
2. The pigment imparts a weak "base" stain around the safe edge of the image. Attempting to remove said stain resulted in removal of the barium sulfate layer, revealing a much flatter paper surface.
3. The gloss of the paper works well with gelatin mixes that have a matte black finish as opposed to a glossy finish. I always try to incorporate this balance as it highlights the relief in the final print.

I have several boxes of the uncoated 11x14 Baryta paper I'm willing to sell as I no longer need them
contact me here