Unbelievable darkroom improvement.!!

Terence · Jan 3, 2008

To clarify, there ARE ventless propane heaters intended for indoor, occupied spaces, but they tend to be lower rated units, and are generally more expensive. Even when using one of these, you should still ensure more than the suggested ventilation and use a battery-operated CO monitor with audible alarm. And it's very important to follow the directions for cleaning to make sure the unit burns efficiently, and thus minimizes CO output.

dpurdy · Jan 3, 2008

This seems to be the most useful thread I ever started.

For the record, yes it does get cold in Portland but it is a damp cold. I already have all the heater types, including the oil filled type which is inaffective in my drafty basement, but am trying to refrain from running 1500 watts all day or running the house gas furnace both of which take money I would rather spend on film and paper. I was of the impression that the propane heater was for indoors as that is what I was told though clearly incorrectly, but I had seen indoor versions advertised and that is why I gave it a try. So I am stupid but.. well OK I am that stupid. But if my stupidity is useful then I am temporarily glad of it.

Hey I would rather deal with cold in Winter than hot in Summer. But I might have to get one of those pig warmers.
Dennis

Terence · Jan 3, 2008

Maybe get some pigs instead. They put out heat, and when it's warm enough again, you can convert them to bacon. Mmmmmm . . . baaaaaaconnnnnnn . . . .

Sirius Glass · Jan 3, 2008

Terence said:
Maybe get some pigs instead. They put out heat, and when it's warm enough again, you can convert them to bacon. Mmmmmm . . . baaaaaaconnnnnnn . . . .

The smell of the pig poop will kill you in that basement!!

Steve

Snapshot · Jan 3, 2008

With regards to space heaters, are the running costs prohibitive? My basement is cold (hovering around 60F) and it's hard to maintain chemistry temperatures.

Phillip P. Dimor · Jan 3, 2008

The small and cheap ceramic heaters use a lot of electricity. I saw a spike in my bill due to it. The oil-filled ones are more efficient.

I've a waterbed mattress heater that I think I could use to warm a tray or three. I've seen the piggie warming blanket having been recommended. $80 and waterproof or so I seem to remember. A search for pig warming blanket will probably pull up the thread.

$80 is a lot for me but I live where it's cold for a week out of the year.

Gay Larson · Jan 3, 2008

We had a long black out just before Christmas due to a horrible ice storm and I went to a sporting goods store and was sold a latern fueled by propane. I thought I was really going to have some light to see my way through the house instead of multitudes of candles. the clerk told me it was safe in the house but luckily I work at a TV station and I checked it out because so many people died during that black out by using unsafe heaters and such and sure enough it was not safe so I took it back and endured the candles and flashlights. 8 days later with the help of huge number of volunteers from around the country power was restored and I am so grateful for those people who came just before Christmas to make sure we had a Christmas in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Craig · Jan 3, 2008

Would it be better to insulate the basement and use some expanding foam to seal the gaps and keep the drafts out? Stopping the wind from going through your house makes a big difference to keeping the heat in. Also try putting some sheets of 2" blue styrofoam on the walls (and floor too, if you then put something on top of it to protect it).
2" of styrofoam is about R10 and will make quite a difference.

richard ide · Jan 3, 2008

As foam is quite flammable and emits toxic gas when it burns; I think most building codes require at least drywall as cladding.

GeorgesGiralt · Jan 4, 2008

Hi !
I do not exactly understand the point here.
IMHO, it is safe to use a combustion heater indoors PROVIDED the combustion is correctly done and the air is sufficiently often changed to renew oxygen.
The CO is a proof that the propane or other petrol derived gas are not burned efficiently either due to poor design or malfunction. Normally it should go to CO2 which is the last final product (with some water) for these kind of gas. Of course, you need to provide enough oxygen to get a combustion, so need to renew air faster than the oxygen consumption rate. Otherwise your internal combustion will be the first to suffer....
In Europe we have combustion heater switched by an air sensor. When the oxygen percentage in the ambient air drops below a certain level, the gas supply is turned off. And the air sensor is mandatory. One can't fix and old appliance which was not fitted with air sensors because selling parts had been banned for these old appliances.
It did not totally suppress accident because, as I wrote above, if the heater is defective and does not burn well, there will be CO made, but this can be detected by a co detector and an alarm sounded BEFORE the dangerous point has been reached.
IMHO, the better solution for a warm darkroom is to limit the total volume of the place, and insulate (cutting air flow (voluntary or not) to a safe minimum) then you will be able to heat the space to Hawaii temp if you want ;-)

Craig · Jan 4, 2008

GeorgesGiralt said:
IMHO, it is safe to use a combustion heater indoors PROVIDED the combustion is correctly done and the air is sufficiently often changed to renew oxygen.;-)

It would be illegal in Canada, and probaly most of the US as well. Anything that burns fuel must be vented so as to remove the fumes to a safe place outdoors. There is also a requirement for fresh make up air, or a supply pipe to bring combustion air directly from outside.

Governing code in Canada is CSA B149. A thorn in my side sometimes.

Terence · Jan 4, 2008

As I said before, there ARE units rated for indoor, "ventless" use, but they do so by not burning as much gas, and thus producing less CO, etc.

The units used on construction sites, etc. (which is probably what the OP has), do not burn as efficiently, and thus put out too much CO to be used indoors. they are meant to be used in semi-enclosed areas where ventilation is much less of an issue. Even still, we constantly have to monitor air quality on-site to make sure CO levels are ithin permissible limits.

Larry.Manuel · Jan 4, 2008

20 lb. propane tanks indoors: No.

Interesting thread. Given that it is not recommended to ever store 20 pound propane tanks indoors, there's another reason to use electrical heaters.

Recently I had my basement walls sprayed with about 6" of icynene [www.icynene.com] foam. Previously, the basement was ideal to keep my beer cold. Now, it's warm enough to walk around in bare feet. There's no heat source down there. My house was built in 1931.

Confusion Circle · Jan 4, 2008

My god, how much is electricity in the US? $60CDN/kwhr here. Costco has those electric satellite dish type heaters that put out a lot of heat.

Paul. · Jan 6, 2008

Interesting thread. The OP says his darkroom is damp and cold. I run a dehumidifier 24/7 in my insulated wooden shed darkroom and seldome need extra heating. A dehumidifier emmits air 2 deg C warmer than it takes in and if in a clean enviroment can be a source of deionised water for processing etc. added advantage no corrosion of equipment nor fungus groth in enlarger lenses.
Regards Paul.

analogfotog · Jan 8, 2008

"Tuke?" The correct spelling (at least in Ottawa) is T-O-Q-U-E.

Kirk Keyes · Jan 8, 2008

analogfotog said:
"Tuke?" The correct spelling (at least in Ottawa) is T-O-Q-U-E.

Okay, so that's our topic for today.
Toques.
Take off to the Great White North
Take off, it's a beauty way to go
Good day, eh?

(Sorry about that, but every time I hear the word "toque", I think of the "Great White North" show with Doug and Bob McKenzie.)

mark · Jan 8, 2008

Everytime I hear the word Toque, I think Toke, then flash back to giggly days combating cotton mouth and the munchies.

Sirius Glass · Jan 9, 2008

I have a toque that I have had for years and thought no be deal. It has the word TOQ at the top and an diagonal line below it.

The first time my girlfriend looked at it, she burst out laughing. I asked her what was so funny. She pointed out that the hat had one and only one "TOQ", then she pointed to the line and said, "Where is the line relative to the TO?"

====> It is one toque over the line!

Steve

analogfotog · Jan 11, 2008

Kirk, the only person I ever knew personally who used "eh" like the fictitious MacKenzie brothers was my own father. I would say to him something like, "I failed Math again" and his response, after looking up from his newspaper, would be a rather surprised, "EH?!?"

If you want to indulge in a REAL Great White North experience, try getting a case of beer, preferably Moosehead, and drink it straight from the bottle, Canadian style. Or come to Ottawa and have a Beaver Tail while strolling along the Rideau Canal, which isn't quite frozen yet. Soon, we hope, in time for Winterfest...

Good grief, NOBODY talks like those two did on that show!!!

dpurdy · Jan 11, 2008

Actually my inlaws up in BC do the "eh" about a thousand times a day. I even start doing it if I am around them too much.

Dennis.

My wife calls our stocking caps tukes. It has rubbed off on me. Tuke was my misspellling. I am an American. That is my American spelling. Toque would be toke to me.

Craig · Jan 11, 2008

dpurdy said:
. Tuke was my misspellling. I am an American. That is my American spelling. Toque would be toke to me.

That also accounts for the different spelling of a financial instrument: In the US its check, in Canada it's cheque, same pronounciation.

analogfotog · Jan 11, 2008

That's okay, Dennis; it's surprising just how many Canadians can't spell it properly! I have also seen it spelled T-U-Q-U-E, as in La Tuque, a city in Quebec about 180 miles from Montreal.

Ronald Moravec · Jan 11, 2008

There must be an open air source unless you wish to call the mortician.

Ronald Moravec · Jan 11, 2008

May I suggest one of the liquid filled electric heaters? It helps to insulate the darkroom also. Floor, ceiling and walls. Heat requirement is minimal if insulated.

Unbelievable darkroom improvement.!!

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