Ultrafine films

Agulliver · Nov 16, 2018

Does anyone know much about the Ultrafine Ultramax T-grain 400ISO film?

I understand their 100 and 400 ISO traditional films are produced by Harman...what about the T-grain film?

I have friends visiting the USA soon and was pondering having a 100 foot roll delivered to them to try. Has anyone experience with these?

trendland · Nov 17, 2018

Agulliver said:
Does anyone know much about the Ultrafine Ultramax T-grain 400ISO film?

I understand their 100 and 400 ISO traditional films are produced by Harman...what about the T-grain film?

I have friends visiting the USA soon and was pondering having a 100 foot roll delivered to them to try. Has anyone experience with these?

Well Agulliver you mean this here right ?

.....so I will answer Y E S ! This stuff is coming from Harman and is "nearly" identical with Delta 400.
So it is a derivate of Delta Films in 35mm and 120!
I would prefer ISO 100 (because I don't need such often higher speed).

Some say : It is B-ware film from Delta manufacturing. Some speculation is in regard of minimal less quality (difference in emulsion backing) - I would not say so because :
There is no way today to produce a film in a "smaler quality" - so the characteristics are 99% identical.
I tested an Ultramaxx 100 a time ago in comparison with Rollei Retro80s both at ISO 40.
(The Rollei Retro was with realy good resolution - Ultramaxx wasn't better in comparison)
Both were superb - but NO the ISO 400 I haven't shot actually but I remember Delta400 of course.

with regards

dourbalistar · Nov 17, 2018

I think OP means this film, not the Ultrafine Xtreme. Unfortunately, it currently appears to be out of stock online:
http://www.ultrafineonline.com/ulult40035x1.html

Paul Howell · Nov 18, 2018

I've used Ultrafine t grain film, seems to a close match to Delta 400, may not be the exact emulsion but close enough, did not know that Ultrafine were offering a 100 roll or would have ordered a roll.

Cholentpot · Nov 18, 2018

trendland said:
Well Agulliver you mean this here right ?
View attachment 211358 View attachment 211359

.....so I will answer Y E S ! This stuff is coming from Harman and is "nearly" identical with Delta 400.
So it is a derivate of Delta Films in 35mm and 120!
I would prefer ISO 100 (because I don't need such often higher speed).

Some say : It is B-ware film from Delta manufacturing. Some speculation is in regard of minimal less quality (difference in emulsion backing) - I would not say so because :
There is no way today to produce a film in a "smaler quality" - so the characteristics are 99% identical.
I tested an Ultramaxx 100 a time ago in comparison with Rollei Retro80s both at ISO 40.
(The Rollei Retro was with realy good resolution - Ultramaxx wasn't better in comparison)
Both were superb - but NO the ISO 400 I haven't shot actually but I remember Delta400 of course.

with regards

I shot through a bulk of this. It pushes really well but it comes out pretty flat looking. Which is fine for scanning. Is it Delta 400? dunno, could be. Haven't shot enough Delta 400 to compare it.

sbattert · Nov 22, 2018

This is a scan of a ultramax t-grain negative. I bought a bulk loader that had the end of an expired roll. I prefer fresh Xtreme 400 over the t-grain, but I did use xtol which I don’t think is made for t-grain.

MattKing · Nov 22, 2018

sbattert said:
but I did use xtol which I don’t think is made for t-grain.

X-Tol certainly works fabulously with Kodak's T-grain emulsions:

Paul Verizzo · Feb 21, 2019

This thread isn't too old, so maybe this comment will bump things.

Getting down into the film and photochemistry rabbit hole after a 3 year hiatus. Checking my inventory, pondering what developers I will use, and what film(s) I will use. I really like TMY-2, the post 2008 version. Pretty expensive, whether by the roll of the 100' one. (Freestyle currently has the best prices that I found.) And then I came across this Ultrafine T Grain product at bargain prices. Hmmmm.............

To my knowledge there are only two T grain film companies, Kodak and Ilford. Someone want to enlighten us further? The first clue is that allegedly they've been selling this since 1989. T-Max hit the streets in 1986, but Ilford Delta, not until 1991. So, are they blowing smoke, or if that is correct, it really narrows things down. Kodak. And the Great Yellow Father is not adverse to private labeling film, that short lived wonderful Arista Premium reboxed Plus-X and Tri-X for $1.99/roll ca. 2010.

A look at suggested development times is puzzling. UF says 6 minutes in D-76, 8 in T-Max. Old TMY is 8 and 7, respectively, and TMY-2 per Kodak is 7.5 and 6.75; that fits the observed changes. Why would UF T-grain be LESS reactive in T-Max developer, the only one that says so. Oh, wait, how about transposed? Then, bingo, right on the Kodak numbers.

Delta 400 is 9.5 and 6.5 minutes respectively. Not even close to UF or Kodak numbers.

If Kodak, TMY or TMY-2? I have trouble believing that 11 years after the introduction of the improved version, there would still be stock sitting around. Nor that Kodak would crank up the machines for another run of it. My bet would be it's TMY-2.

Are there any clues in the edge markings?

It's cheap enough I'm sure I'll buy some to test in the next few months. It sure would be sweet to get TMY-2 at half the price of Kodak.

Paul Verizzo · Feb 21, 2019

Wow, that was fast dose of reality. After writing the above, I went to UF's website to check shipping costs. They are nuts. They want $13.46 to ship 3#, the lowest weight, to Texas. So, a $20 purchase of 5 rolls makes it $6.75/roll, far more than the real Kodak deal bought from Freestyle. I guess it' still reasonable if you buy a 100' roll, but it's out of stock. But, again, for not much more, the real deal may be had.

Their shipping page looks like something out of the 1970's with zones by state and weights. Wow. How do some outfits stay in business?

abruzzi · Feb 21, 2019

That seems kind of high, but that is the issues with a number of vendors that the cost is offset by the cost to ship. One of the reasons I buy most of my film for B&H is the free shipping at $50 or more. I looked at a recent order from UF that I made--100' of UF100, 100' of UF400, and 10 plastic film casettes, shipped to New Mexico for $8.95 via USPS. I don't know the weight or if Florida would cost $5 more, but it was reasonable, and I always factor shipping into the cost, and its still much cheaper than 100' of TMAX or Delta. (though i like TMAX better.)

Paul Verizzo · Feb 21, 2019

abruzzi said:
That seems kind of high, but that is the issues with a number of vendors that the cost is offset by the cost to ship. One of the reasons I buy most of my film for B&H is the free shipping at $50 or more. I looked at a recent order from UF that I made--100' of UF100, 100' of UF400, and 10 plastic film casettes, shipped to New Mexico for $8.95 via USPS. I don't know the weight or if Florida would cost $5 more, but it was reasonable, and I always factor shipping into the cost, and its still much cheaper than 100' of TMAX or Delta. (though i like TMAX better.)

Yeah, in this day and age of Prime, we are spoiled. Agree about free above X dollars, I've done a lot of that with Adorama, too. And Freestyle used to be very reasonable, I think I got packages via Fedex Ground from LA to FL in just 3, 4 days. For $8?

Thanks for pointing out my location is now incorrect. I'm in, goddess help me, Texas, north of Austin. UF standard shipment isn't even Priority Mail, which is even less than they are charging and is not weight dependent.

Go figger. I can't.

Chris Johnson · Feb 21, 2019

I recently ordered some film and paper from them and evidently they were out of 25 sheet packages and they sent me a hundred sheet box instead, at no extra charge.
They've got my vote.

Paul Verizzo · Feb 21, 2019

@ Chris, I'd say lucky you, yes they did a nice thing. But it doesn't offset all those high shipping costs for most of the customers. That's the ongoing reality.

dourbalistar · Feb 21, 2019

Ultrafine has an eBay storefront where they're selling 8-rolls of their T-grain film for $39.95 with free shipping:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/8-Rolls-Ul...-ISO-400-35mm-x-36-exp-Tmax-type/312215769450

CMoore · Feb 22, 2019

Paul Verizzo said:
Wow, that was fast dose of reality. After writing the above, I went to UF's website to check shipping costs. They are nuts. They want $13.46 to ship 3#, the lowest weight, to Texas. So, a $20 purchase of 5 rolls makes it $6.75/roll, far more than the real Kodak deal bought from Freestyle. I guess it' still reasonable if you buy a 100' roll, but it's out of stock. But, again, for not much more, the real deal may be had.

Their shipping page looks like something out of the 1970's with zones by state and weights. Wow. How do some outfits stay in business?

I was going to say check Ebay as well.
They are probably a relatively small business.
You have to ask your self.....if YOU were in the Business Of Selling stuff, what would you charge to buy and stock packing material, pay an employee to pack 5 rolls of film, and then ship it to the person that is buying it.?
Does 13 bux really sound that outrages.?
My car goes about 100 miles on 15 dollars of gas.
You can MAKE a sandwich way cheaper than you can buy one at a Deli, but the Deli is in the business of selling sandwiches and paying rent, taxes, labor.
Most business are WAY smaller than B&H or Amazon......
People seem to think everything is "expensive".....except for their own Profession/Business.

Paul Verizzo · Feb 22, 2019

dourbalistar said:
Ultrafine has an eBay storefront where they're selling 8-rolls of their T-grain film for $39.95 with free shipping:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/8-Rolls-Ul...-ISO-400-35mm-x-36-exp-Tmax-type/312215769450

thanks, I happened to see a listing for a different quantity plus some shipping, and it still came out to something like $7 a roll. Your listing looks much better.

It appears that Photo Warehouse plays will all kinds of numbers, higher/lower prices, free/reasonable/exorbitant shipping, varying their own site and eBay.

Paul Verizzo · Feb 22, 2019

CMoore said:
I was going to say check Ebay as well.
They are probably a relatively small business.
You have to ask your self.....if YOU were in the Business Of Selling stuff, what would you charge to buy and stock packing material, pay an employee to pack 5 rolls of film, and then ship it to the person that is buying it.?
Does 13 bux really sound that outrages.?
My car goes about 100 miles on 15 dollars of gas.
You can MAKE a sandwich way cheaper than you can buy one at a Deli, but the Deli is in the business of selling sandwiches and paying rent, taxes, labor.
Most business are WAY smaller than B&H or Amazon......
People seem to think everything is "expensive".....except for their own Profession/Business.

No, Photo Warehouse is a fairly large operation, check the website. Not a B&H, but big enough to have Harman sell them plenty of rebranded film and chemicals. As to your question and observation, the fact is that many other businesses have figured how to provide free, meaning included in the item price, or low cost shipping. Freestyle, most orders, $8. (Might be out of date.)

Yes, $13 is outrageous when five rolls of film can go out in a small Priority Mail box for about $6, not the take its time ground service that PW uses. And, probably your aren't aware, but volume shippers get HUGE discounts from all the carriers. That's why all shipping costs have gone up and up for the single person like you or me. I bought a bike part that happened to have the shipping cost in the invoice, it was under $3. It cost me $7 to return it.

PW is stuck in the past on these shipping matters. Change or die. That's business.

Paul Verizzo · Feb 22, 2019

sbattert said:
This is a scan of a ultramax t-grain negative. I bought a bulk loader that had the end of an expired roll. I prefer fresh Xtreme 400 over the t-grain, but I did use xtol which I don’t think is made for t-grain.

What are the edge markings? Any hints?

destroya · Feb 23, 2019

they also have an amazon storefront. i have never seen them charge so high. thats a strange shipping cost. you put it in your basket and then calculated shipping? thats is high, sorry, but it should not cost that much,

Wallendo · Feb 23, 2019

Paul Verizzo said:
No, Photo Warehouse is a fairly large operation, check the website. Not a B&H, but big enough to have Harman sell them plenty of rebranded film and chemicals. As to your question and observation, the fact is that many other businesses have figured how to provide free, meaning included in the item price, or low cost shipping. Freestyle, most orders, $8. (Might be out of date.)

Yes, $13 is outrageous when five rolls of film can go out in a small Priority Mail box for about $6, not the take its time ground service that PW uses. And, probably your aren't aware, but volume shippers get HUGE discounts from all the carriers. That's why all shipping costs have gone up and up for the single person like you or me. I bought a bike part that happened to have the shipping cost in the invoice, it was under $3. It cost me $7 to return it.

PW is stuck in the past on these shipping matters. Change or die. That's business.

When I buy from Photo Warehouse, I find it easier to buy their products from them on eBay instead of using their website. eBay gives me the exact price for shipping and is much more convenient than using their website.

Paul Verizzo · Feb 23, 2019

Churning the old cost per roll math, I can buy unknown product from PW, or honest to goddess new T-Max from Freestyle at about a dollar a roll difference. Freestyle is having a 10% discount on Kodak films, cartridges or long rolls.

If PW made their long rolls available again, and we could confirm that it is TMY-2, it would be a bargain. But for loaded roll pricing, no thanks. I'll stick with the known.

Oh, yeah, I asked them about when the long roll will be available again and if original or 2. Crickets.

mklw1954 · Feb 27, 2019

If you order from Ultrafine's web site, see the About Us page: there is a $25 minimum order, free shipping, but a flat $9.95 charge for insurance and handling regardless of order size. The table showing the high shipping costs are additional shipping charges for liquid chemistry (on the Shipping Information page). They have not made things clear by having the flat rate information on the About Us page and not on the Shipping page. It's worthwhile if you have a decent size order and the 100 ft. bulk rolls of 135 film provide good savings if you bulk load, unlike many other films where the savings are not worthwhile.

Paul Verizzo · Feb 28, 2019

Wow, this is beyond stupid. Should I look under B&W chemicals for color paper? Their website is beyond difficult, one has to burrow down page after page to look at a product, then back up several steps to examine the next one.

But, hey! That's great news! Suddenly PW/Ultrafine becomes more financially logical. I might buy a few things, now!

The other night I order a few things from Freestyle. They still have their $8 flat for small orders, I bought the 5L Rollei C-41 kit and a pint of Photo-flo, $11 shipping. I added a ten pack of 11X14 paper, same price. As they have in the past, they use Fedex Ground which is amazingly fast. Order fulfilled Wednesday AM, should be here tomorrow, Friday. That's like Priority Mail. IIRC, it was only one more day when I lived in FL.

trendland · Feb 28, 2019

Paul Verizzo said:
Wow, this is beyond stupid. Should I look under B&W chemicals for color paper? Their website is beyond difficult, one has to burrow down page after page to look at a product, then back up several steps to examine the next one.

But, hey! That's great news! Suddenly PW/Ultrafine becomes more financially logical. I might buy a few things, now!

The other night I order a few things from Freestyle. They still have their $8 flat for small orders, I bought the 5L Rollei C-41 kit and a pint of Photo-flo, $11 shipping. I added a ten pack of 11X14 paper, same price. As they have in the past, they use Fedex Ground which is amazingly fast. Order fulfilled Wednesday AM, should be here tomorrow, Friday. That's like Priority Mail. IIRC, it was only one more day when I lived in FL.

Paul btw : of course it may be nice to have the speed of ISO400 AND good resolution twice!
But (just a thought) if one use a good ISO 100 film (tmax100/delta100) ....or lets sent the" good old
brother" Ilford panF into such competition (from me also use Foma100 - some like it)....
not to forget a real competitor in the (oldfashioned) ISO 100 class : Ilford Fp4 (fabuless)
A N D you would use a triopod = what about that ?

with regards

PS : I never understood the approach to " more speed" beside some special kind of shots
(avaible light "extreme"/sports/documentary)

But today a real desease infected more and more photographers : tripot allergy - right!

So we have not to be angry about more and more digital IPhone shooters - because of why ?

Because they spent most money to selfie sticks - if they would have to handle a tripod they soon
would collapse. In the longer term they should be selected by nature!
Like Darvin told us .....!

Paul Verizzo · Feb 28, 2019

trendland said:
Paul btw : of course it may be nice to have the speed of ISO400 AND good resolution twice!
But (just a thought) if one use a good ISO 100 film (tmax100/delta100) ....or lets sent the" good old
brother" Ilford panF into such competition (from me also use Foma100 - some like it)....
not to forget a real competitor in the (oldfashioned) ISO 100 class : Ilford Fp4 (fabuless)
A N D you would use a triopod = what about that ?

with regards

PS : I never understood the approach to " more speed" beside some special kind of shots
(avaible light "extreme"/sports/documentary)

But today a real desease infected more and more photographers : tripot allergy - right!

So we have not to be angry about more and more digital IPhone shooters - because of why ?

Because they spent most money to selfie sticks - if they would have to handle a tripod they soon
would collapse. In the longer term they should be selected by nature!
Like Darvin told us .....!

Nothing at all against tripods! In fact, I keep a light duty and a medium duty in my trunk. Heavy duty video 'pod, no. AND, the "everyone is amazed when I use it," monopod!

It's mostly a matter of convenience, shooting on the fly, not having to do the tripod thing although the monopod is all but there.

And, TMY-2 has sharpness, up to 200 lpmm, IIRC that few standard films can touch. Obviously, time for a tripod to attain that.

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