Ultrafine Brand (film and chemicals)?

urnem57 · Mar 6, 2021

I don’t subscribe to that theory. Why cheap out on film? I was “practicing with cheap film” and then came across a really great composition/situation that could not be replicated ever again. I got it. But it’s on crappy film. Never again. I will use the crappy film to check for light leaks, etc. but that’s it. You wouldn’t put cheap gas in a Ferrari, would you? Well, chances are you’ve spent a buck or two on gear. Buy the good stuff and learn to master that. You will still need to go through that process once you “graduate” to shooting good film anyway, as it’s a whole different emulsion. Kind of like learning to surf. Don’t start by only getting up on your knees. Because when the time comes, you still need to learn how to stand up from a prone position. Just my 2 cents. Well, actually a nickel.

Paul Howell · Mar 6, 2021

Although I think of Ultrafine and Foma as my walk around film, both are fine films, I've shoots hundreds of rolls have great look prints. They need to be shot within their limitations, Ultafine lacks a anti-halation layer, I find that Foma does not push well and tends to somewhat grainy, Saying that when I travel I take Tmax 400 as it pushes well and I think a little more forgiving in low light, the exception is 4X5 and 6X9 sheet film, I use Foma 200.

Auer · Mar 6, 2021

urnem57 said:
I don’t subscribe to that theory. Why cheap out on film? I was “practicing with cheap film” and then came across a really great composition/situation that could not be replicated ever again. I got it. But it’s on crappy film. Never again. I will use the crappy film to check for light leaks, etc. but that’s it. You wouldn’t put cheap gas in a Ferrari, would you? Well, chances are you’ve spent a buck or two on gear. Buy the good stuff and learn to master that. You will still need to go through that process once you “graduate” to shooting good film anyway, as it’s a whole different emulsion. Kind of like learning to surf. Don’t start by only getting up on your knees. Because when the time comes, you still need to learn how to stand up from a prone position. Just my 2 cents. Well, actually a nickel.

Both Arista (Foma) and UF are capable of excellent images.
Do a little more research.

urnem57 · Mar 6, 2021

Just offering a different opinion. I learned the hard way. Sure, it’s “capable” it’s just not consistent. Do your own research on that subject around here. There’s a reason Foma Film is 1/2 the cost of the others. You get what you pay for.

Dusty Negative · Mar 6, 2021

urnem57 said:
I don’t subscribe to that theory. Why cheap out on film? I was “practicing with cheap film” and then came across a really great composition/situation that could not be replicated ever again.

That's precisely the type of scenario I haven't faced yet, and therefore the benefits of 'premium' film (just to continue your thought process) are still not fully transparent to me. Until I have such head-slapping moments I cannot predict a lot of what I passively read on forums about inky blacks, blocked-up highlights, etc. It's all somewhat slippery and conceptual rather than innate and experiential. So, in the meantime, paying premium prices is not necessarily yielding premium learning dividends.

No comment on whether UF and Arista count as "cheap film." I've read they punch above their market slot, but, again, I'll leave that to the folks here that are more familiar with them. While I generally agree with "you get what you pay for," the very fact that Foma and Arista Edu Ultra (or whatever) are the exact same film being sold at different price points shows that like all rules of thumb, there are exceptions.

Auer · Mar 6, 2021

urnem57 said:
Just offering a different opinion. I learned the hard way. Sure, it’s “capable” it’s just not consistent. Do your own research on that subject around here. There’s a reason Foma Film is 1/2 the cost of the others. You get what you pay for.

I started a thread on problems I had with Foma 200 in 120. I also have reported issues with Ilford in 120.
I've done my own research. How about you?

urnem57 · Mar 6, 2021

Had a bad box of Foma 100 4x5. Returned no problem. There’s a thread about that on here too. (Not started by me)
Do what you like. I can only share my experience. Photography is a lot of trial and error. Mostly error. But I learn from both what works and doesn’t.

Darko Kamer · Mar 7, 2021

Anyone heard what's happening with the business of supplying Ultrafine Extreme to the film shooting public? The film is unavailable - sold out pretty much every where. In this state I think photo warehouse must be freaking out. Any one have any news on future availability of Ultrafine Extreme?

Paul Howell · Mar 7, 2021

If Ultrafine is made in the UK by Harmon as most believe might be a while before production is back to 100%, or Harmon has jacked up the price to where Photo Warehouse cannot make a profit.

Auer · Mar 7, 2021

Paul Howell said:
If Ultrafine is made in the UK by Harmon as most believe might be a while before production is back to 100%, or Harmon has jacked up the price to where Photo Warehouse cannot make a profit.

I have no idea where its made, and have seen nothing yet that would prove where its made either.
But it has gotten to the point that the lack/lenght of availability/absence suggests we might not see it again.

I sent a few e-mails asking about stock, and have gotten no answer at all.
I've written it off, for now.

Donald Qualls · Mar 7, 2021

urnem57 said:
You wouldn’t put cheap gas in a Ferrari, would you?

Well, to carry this analogy a little further, I don't own a Ferrari or Lamborghini (or a Bugatti or Konigsegg, for that matter). I do own a number of Fords, Chevies, got a shipment on the way that includes some Plymouths -- and one old Lincoln. And several old Yugos, Datsuns, and Volkswagens (plus a couple Lada). And they all run fine on unleaded (insofar as they run "fine" on anything).

I've never had a problem with this "crappy" film that was traceable to the film (developing errors, exposure errors, light leaks, yes, absolutely, but those aren't Foma's fault in any way). And I've had just as many of those problems with Kodak and Fuji film products. By using the same emulsion in 35mm, 120, and 4x5, I can be confident of reducing the potential for processing errors, at least the sort that stem from not having the emulsion in the tank that I thought I did.

urnem57 · Mar 7, 2021

Again. Read through the threads on here where others have experienced problems with Foma Emulsions. A Kia is not a Rolls Royce.

Grim Tuesday · Mar 7, 2021

Right, but Kodak isn't Rolls Royce either, anymore. Kodak ruined almost an entire year of T-max 400 with the weird background imprinting issue. There is background mottling on some Ilford films that occurs for no known reason. Foma has occasional manufacturing defects. Seems pretty similar in magnitude to the issues at the other players.

Auer · Mar 7, 2021

Grim Tuesday said:
Right, but Kodak isn't Rolls Royce either, anymore. Kodak ruined almost an entire year of T-max 400 with the weird background imprinting issue. There is background mottling on some Ilford films that occurs for no known reason. Foma has occasional manufacturing defects. Seems pretty similar in magnitude to the issues at the other players.

Pretty much this.
Choosing a film strictly based on price (high or low) guarantees nothing.

Donald Qualls · Mar 7, 2021

Auer said:
Pretty much this.
Choosing a film strictly based on price (high or low) guarantees nothing.

Other than leaving more money to buy more/replacement film if you buy the less costly.

I say again, though others have had problems, I have not. Perhaps I just don't use enough film. I'm working on that. Meanwhile, I'll continue to use Foma (aka .EDU Ultra). If you don't like it, you won't.

urnem57 · Mar 7, 2021

True. I learned the hard way with Xtol. But, from my experience, there have been significantly less malfunctions with the “better” brands. Nothing’s perfect.

The best solution I can come up with......wait for it......shoot more film.

Dusty Negative · Mar 7, 2021

urnem57 said:
The best solution I can come up with......wait for it......shoot more film.

Sage advice.

Disconnekt · Mar 8, 2021

Right now due to covid & the whole "Brexit" snaffu, Ultrafine is prety much "last in line" when getting their Xtreme & Finesse films (Ilford & Foma), and since Ilford increased their prices thats why their Xtreme line went up in price. Ferrania even expected to have their P30 film in 120 available for sale summer of last year but because of covid they had to push that back.

urnem57 · Mar 8, 2021

I would be curious to see how many times Fuji Films have had bad emulsion or manufacturing problems. I’m not going to spend the time digging for threads on here, but I suspect there aren’t many. But threads on Foma? Do your own research. Buy cheap, buy twice.

dourbalistar · Mar 8, 2021

I love Ultrafine eXtreme 400, too. I hope @Disconnekt is right that lack of supply is COVID-19 and/or Brexit related, and that it'll reappear once things get back to "normal". Personally, I don't see it as a cheap film, but rather, an inexpensive one. But then again, if we're using the car analogy, I'm the Chevy Pinto.

Dusty Negative · Mar 9, 2021

Darko Kamer said:
Anyone heard what's happening with the business of supplying Ultrafine Extreme to the film shooting public? The film is unavailable - sold out pretty much every where. In this state I think photo warehouse must be freaking out. Any one have any news on future availability of Ultrafine Extreme?

Well, FWIW, here’s one anecdote:

I called Photo Warehouse yesterday and asked. The very friendly fellow said they don’t know when to expect it, and that they have offered “expected” dates previously but have had to cancel those when the film did not arrive. Separately, he mentioned that they still receive *some* in dribs and drabs, so be sure and keep an eye on the website.

D-Neg

epp · Jan 9, 2022

In early 2020, I purchased (what was advertised at the time) what should have been a box of 20 rolls of Ultrafine Extreme 135-12 black and white film, from Photo Warehouse. When the order arrived, instead of one box of 20 rolls, I received 20 individual rolls of the film, inside their black plastic cans, inside a bag, with no film expiration date anywhere. Although I no longer have the email from them, when I inquired about this, I was not provided with an expiration date for the film, but that the film should otherwise be fine.

Although I have found positive reviews online about this film, I have yet to use it (pandemic, etc.), but once the warmer weather comes, I would like to dig out my Holgas and Dianas and shoot some film with them.

Given that it has been almost two years since I purchased the film, can it be assumed (reasonably) that the film would still be good at this point? Please note that not knowing what the actual expiration date is, I would be hesitant to purchase this film again.

Thank you in advance.

Deleted member 88956 · Jan 9, 2022

urnem57 said:
Just offering a different opinion. I learned the hard way. Sure, it’s “capable” it’s just not consistent. Do your own research on that subject around here. There’s a reason Foma Film is 1/2 the cost of the others. You get what you pay for.

Few months since that post, but looks like you really did not do much research to know why Foma is that much less than some "premium" films. You can screw up he most expensive film on earth and come back with a best image you ever made on a cheapest one. Never heard of Foma (or similarly priced films) as only a "light leak" checker, first I heard comment like that. It may be your opinion, which hopefully will not sway too many from ever using cheaper films again.

MattKing · Jan 9, 2022

epp said:
In early 2020, I purchased (what was advertised at the time) what should have been a box of 20 rolls of Ultrafine Extreme 135-12 black and white film, from Photo Warehouse. When the order arrived, instead of one box of 20 rolls, I received 20 individual rolls of the film, inside their black plastic cans, inside a bag, with no film expiration date anywhere. Although I no longer have the email from them, when I inquired about this, I was not provided with an expiration date for the film, but that the film should otherwise be fine.

Although I have found positive reviews online about this film, I have yet to use it (pandemic, etc.), but once the warmer weather comes, I would like to dig out my Holgas and Dianas and shoot some film with them.

Given that it has been almost two years since I purchased the film, can it be assumed (reasonably) that the film would still be good at this point? Please note that not knowing what the actual expiration date is, I would be hesitant to purchase this film again.

Thank you in advance.

I wouldn't hesitate to use it.
But I would try a roll first on something unimportant, to check to make sure that the storage conditions in the last two years hadn't created a problem.

Paul Howell · Jan 9, 2022

Well you have last rolls on earth, Photowearhouse has been out of extrem 100 and 400 for over a year and no assurance that they will carry it again. A few months ago a found a roll of 400 in 120 in the bottom of the case I carry my Mamiya Universal, must have been there for 3 or 4 years, shot it, developed in D76 stock, negatives are quite good.

Ultrafine Brand (film and chemicals)?

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