Ultrafine Brand (film and chemicals)?

Bormental · Apr 6, 2020

When googling for bulk loading film supplies, I came across Ultrafine. On the first glance, they appear to be similar to B&H and Adorama, but they also sell products under their own brand.

They have:

Film: Ultrafine XTreme.
Chemicals, their own flavor of D-76 even!

Did anyone try them? I've ran some searches and some people in the past claimed that their films are, in fact, Ilford Delta. That would be insane, at $50 per 100ft roll.

abruzzi · Apr 7, 2020

I’ve never used their chemicals, but I have use the Xtreme 100 and 400 films in 35mm. I like the 100, not so much the 400 which has a grain that I don’t really like much. I’ve never heard it was Ilford Delta, and having never shot Delta 100 or 400 I can’t compare. There have been lots of discussion about the provenance of the film, but in the end no body knows with any certainty if it’s the same as another film.

Bormental · Apr 7, 2020

Hey, that's also great news! If that's indeed repackaged Kentmere 100, that's great. I love that film. Never tried the 400 though. Just placed an order for a couple of rolls and their chemicals as well. Will report back the results.

dourbalistar · Apr 7, 2020

I've used Ultrafine Xtreme in both 35mm and 120. I started with 120, but I'm now most of the way through a 100' bulk roll. You can find an album of image samples on my Flickr. I find it to be an excellent film, especially for the cost. It dries very flat which is great for scanning or digitizing. It seems to have less Anti Halation Undercoat (AHU), so you might see some halation around bright highlights. I don't think there's a better value for 100' of 35mm film.

p.s. Photo Warehouse is currently having a sale on its 10% off purchases of $25 or more. Use code [STAYSAFE] during checkout online, now through 04/09/2020 Midnight PST.

M Carter · Apr 7, 2020

I've used their powdered lith developer; it's similar to LD-20 in that it works on MGWT; like LD-20, it's not true infectious development on MGWT (and new seagull warmtone too) but you can get the contrast control of lith and some color. It's a cheap way to get a couple gallons for big lith prints, but it's subtly "not as good" as LD-20; really delicate shadow detail can get a little plugged up with it.

Wallendo · Apr 7, 2020

The Ultrafine Xtreme films look a lot like Kentmere films. It is not clear whether these are made by Harman or another manufacturer using a similar formula. In the end it really doesn't matter.

In the days when Simon Galley was involved with Harman, there was a definite policy of not rebranding any film they made. I doubt this is rebranded Kentmere, but could well be an older or modified formulation of that film.

Grim Tuesday · Apr 7, 2020

Both the ultrafine xtreme films are awesome films, with great quality control and results. I particularly like Ultrafine 100 pushed to 200, developed in HC-110. Here's an example of that combination: https://www.flickr.com/photos/132764966@N03/46118837252/in/dateposted-public/

They are almost certainly made by Ilford, based on the font, backing paper and the Made in EU packaging (we will know for sure when Brexit happens if it changes to "made in UK"). I once called Ultrafine and they told me the formula is not the same as any other films currently on the market. If that's true, I think it is likely to be something very similar to Ilford Pan 100 and Ilford Pan 400, perhaps with the addition or subtraction of anti-halation backing.

Ariston · Apr 7, 2020

I bulk load UFX 400 and like it very much. I have only used the 100 in 120 format. It isn't my favorite. I prefer the 400 stuff more, but sometimes I need that 100 speed. Here is a long exposure shot with the 100, but it has been edited a bit (until I gave up on it):

Wallendo · Apr 7, 2020

Grim Tuesday said:
Both the ultrafine xtreme films are awesome films, with great quality control and results. I particularly like Ultrafine 100 pushed to 200, developed in HC-110. Here's an example of that combination: https://www.flickr.com/photos/132764966@N03/46118837252/in/dateposted-public/

They are almost certainly made by Ilford, based on the font, backing paper and the Made in EU packaging (we will know for sure when Brexit happens if it changes to "made in UK"). I once called Ultrafine and they told me the formula is not the same as any other films currently on the market. If that's true, I think it is likely to be something very similar to Ilford Pan 100 and Ilford Pan 400, perhaps with the addition or subtraction of anti-halation backing.

That could be Ilford trying to throw us off the trail.
All Ilford film I have bought says "Made in England", I've never seen one mentioning the EU.
I guess we'll know for sure when the next batch is released.

dourbalistar · Apr 7, 2020

I don't really care who makes it, as long as I can keep getting 100' for $50. It temporarily went out of stock at Photo Warehouse back in January, and that made a lot people (including me) worry that we were losing another great budget film stock.

FWIW, I develop mine using LegacyPro L110 (a HC-110 clone from Freestyle) at 1:31 for 5.5 minutes.

cmacd123 · Apr 7, 2020

Only thing I dislike about these folks is that they tend to charge more for shipping to Canada than most suppliers. They apparently do not have an arrangement like B&H uses. Unfortunatly that knocks out any saving, otherwise I would likly be a regualr customer.

Donald Qualls · Apr 7, 2020

The other major private label film sold by an American vendor, Freestyle's Arista .EDU Ultra, has been pretty well established to be Fomapan. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find the Ultrafine Extreme is as well (even the naming has a similar theme). If it's "Made in EU" it pretty well has to be Adox or Foma; as noted, Ilford insists on "Made in England." That said, while I've shot and have on hand a bunch of .EDU Ultra, I've never shot any Ultrafine offering.

Disconnekt · Apr 7, 2020

I shoot the Ultrafine Xtreme 100 with Legacy Pro 110 in Dilution B (1:31) & like it. Ilford habe said they never rebadge their name-brand line of films (Delta, FP4+, etc.), thought they never mentioned anything about their older versions of film & their budget line like Kentmere (have read online of people saying that UFX 100 & 400 is similiar to Kentmere's 100 & 400)

MattKing · Apr 7, 2020

Last summer, in a private Photrio Conversation, Harman confirmed to me that they will not make for re-brand any of their Ilford branded material. At the same time, they expressly refused to comment on whether or not they were now willing to make for re-brand any of their Kentmere branded products, and welcomed any speculation that may arise.
They indicated that I was welcome to share that Conversation with the forum. I did then, and I do so here aggain.

Bormental · Apr 7, 2020

Thank you everyone! I kept googling and eventually found this. There's very little doubt in my mind that Ultrafine Xtreme is rebranded Kentmere. I recently finished a couple of rolls of Kentmere 100 and I honestly didn't feel any downgrade compared to FP4+.

cmacd123 · Apr 7, 2020

Bormental said:
Thank you everyone! I kept googling and eventually found this. There's very little doubt in my mind that Ultrafine Xtreme is rebranded Kentmere. I recently finished a couple of rolls of Kentmere 100 and I honestly didn't feel any downgrade compared to FP4+.

I did get both the 120 and 35mm version of Ultrafine extreme and both are produced with packaging that is identical to that used on Ilford products. (same spools, same backing paper, same die cut on the sealing labels same typeface on the DX code barcode on the cassette.

I have been working on the assumption that it is interchangeable with the Kentmere. When Simon was participating he did say that at the time they would not be producing any private label versions of ilford film, and when Kentmere came out he said that they would not make a private label version of Ilford film even for themselves, so Kentmere is a different film from Ilford. shortly after we started to see a few private label films that were at least packaged by ilford.

I imagine henning may know but no doubt he is not allowed to say.

Agulliver · Apr 8, 2020

The only problem I have with that article is the writer keeps comparing Kentmere 400, Ultrafine 400 and Ilford HP5+ with Ilford Delta 400. The Delta films use entirely different tabular grain structure compared to the traditional cubic grain structure of the other aforementioned films. There's no way on earth they could look similar when examined even with a good naked eye, much less with a loupe.

There are also issues with using the numeric code on a 135 cassette to identify a film. For example it is well known that Lomography used to source their 800ISO C41 film from Ferrania. This supply ran out a few years after the original Ferrania closed it's doors and more recently they've probably been using a freshly made film toll coated by Kodak. But the 135 cassettes still carry the numeric code for Ferrania!

However it is curious that Harman have now on multiple occasions repeated the statement that no Ilford branded product is sold under another name...but equally not commented on Kentmere products being sold under other names. Now that's been heard a few times, we must consider the possibility that the post-Simon Galley Harman does offer Kentmere products to be sold under other brand names. In that case, it's quite likely that the Ultrafine 400 is Kentmere. People who have used it and Fomapan say it ain't Foma.

There's also an Ultrafine "T-grain" film which might be related to Ilford Delta 400. But I would assume it's tweaked to make it a little different. Once people are permitted to travel again I intend to get some Ultrafine 100 at least when either myself or friends are over in the USA.

Donald Qualls · Apr 8, 2020

Hmm. Call me a Philistine, but I've never shot Ilford film, never mind Kentmere (I think it came out about the time I had to closed down my darkroom, never expecting it would be twelve years before I got it running again). Now, I think I might have to order a few rolls of the Ultrafine Extreme, just to compare to the (known to be Foma) .EDU Ultra I routinely use for almost all of my B&W needs.

dourbalistar · Apr 8, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
Hmm. Call me a Philistine, but I've never shot Ilford film, never mind Kentmere (I think it came out about the time I had to closed down my darkroom, never expecting it would be twelve years before I got it running again). Now, I think I might have to order a few rolls of the Ultrafine Extreme, just to compare to the (known to be Foma) .EDU Ultra I routinely use for almost all of my B&W needs.

If you're going to order anyway, there's a promo code for 10% off that ends tonight.

dourbalistar said:
p.s. Photo Warehouse is currently having a sale on its 10% off purchases of $25 or more. Use code [STAYSAFE] during checkout online, now through 04/09/2020 Midnight PST.

Donald Qualls · Apr 9, 2020

dourbalistar said:
If you're going to order anyway, there's a promo code for 10% off that ends tonight.

Thanks, but unfortunately, I need to wait until payday (a week from today) for this and another item I need. I've looked at this before, though; regular price is a few cents less than the .EDU Ultra -- not enough to make a real difference.

Dusty Negative · Mar 6, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
Hmm. Call me a Philistine, but I've never shot Ilford film, never mind Kentmere (I think it came out about the time I had to closed down my darkroom, never expecting it would be twelve years before I got it running again). Now, I think I might have to order a few rolls of the Ultrafine Extreme, just to compare to the (known to be Foma) .EDU Ultra I routinely use for almost all of my B&W needs.

Sorry to resuscitate this thread, Mr. Qualls, but did you ever do an Ultrafine v. Arista comparison for yourself? Got kids heading off to college and need to start weaning myself off of specialty film.

Auer · Mar 6, 2021

Dusty Negative said:
Sorry to resuscitate this thread, Mr. Qualls, but did you ever do an Ultrafine v. Arista comparison for yourself? Got kids heading off to college and need to start weaning myself off of specialty film.

Just an FYI, there has not been any stock for quite a while. https://www.ultrafineonline.com/ulxtblwhfi.html

Shame, it's a great film. When (if) it becomes available again, just pick up a few rolls and make your own comparison to Foma (Arista).

Dusty Negative · Mar 6, 2021

Auer said:
Just an FYI, there has not been any stock for quite a while. https://www.ultrafineonline.com/ulxtblwhfi.html

Shame, it's a great film. When (if) it becomes available again, just pick up a few rolls and make your own comparison to Foma (Arista).

Actually, I’m familiar with, and quite like, Ultrafine at 400. It’s the Arista I’ve never shot before. The grain of the latter looks a little too prominent based solely on some random Googling (JCH has a good comparison against their film), but since Donald is an Arista shooter I figured I’d get his take.

Donald Qualls · Mar 6, 2021

I was sent a single 35mm roll of Ultrafine Extreme 100, and quite liked it -- and I'm pretty sure it's not Foma -- but I still haven't bought any of the regular Ultrafine films.

I have been shooting XP2 Super a bit lately, and I like it a lot -- but I wouldn't expect it to be anything like silver-image B&W films. One thing I really like with XP2 Super is the ability to choose to process it in C-41, B&W chemistry (like D-76 or Xtol), or C-41 with bleach bypass, and get excellent results any way you soup it. My preference has become bleach bypass; this gets almost indistinguishable image quality from regular C-41, but gains approximately a stop of speed (due to the extra density of leaving the developed silver in the image), and an 800 speed film that gives grain like conventional 100 speed films is a really welcome development. Enough so to get me to pay almost double for XP2 Super over bulk loaded .EDU Ultra 400 (must get another bulk loader to put XP2 Super into).

Dusty Negative · Mar 6, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
I was sent a single 35mm roll of Ultrafine Extreme 100, and quite liked it -- and I'm pretty sure it's not Foma -- but I still haven't bought any of the regular Ultrafine films.

I have been shooting XP2 Super a bit lately, and I like it a lot -- but I wouldn't expect it to be anything like silver-image B&W films. One thing I really like with XP2 Super is the ability to choose to process it in C-41, B&W chemistry (like D-76 or Xtol), or C-41 with bleach bypass, and get excellent results any way you soup it. My preference has become bleach bypass; this gets almost indistinguishable image quality from regular C-41, but gains approximately a stop of speed (due to the extra density of leaving the developed silver in the image), and an 800 speed film that gives grain like conventional 100 speed films is a really welcome development. Enough so to get me to pay almost double for XP2 Super over bulk loaded .EDU Ultra 400 (must get another bulk loader to put XP2 Super into).

Haven’t tried XP2 yet. I have some FP4 loaded (first time) that I bought a while back, but I feel I jumped away from Ultimate (and similar “budget” films) a little too early. I suspect Ultimate and Arista would fit 90% of my needs if I spent more time mastering it/them. And, why not save some ducats in the process?

Alas. I get distracted by shiny new things.

Ultrafine Brand (film and chemicals)?

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