UK - temp control for running water

Hi, I wonder if anyone in the UK has any idea about products to help me with controlling temperature of water from the tap?

I've been trying to find something simple such as an 'inline' thermometer that I can plug onto a hose, or even some sort of temperature control mixer which'll handle 20degC from my hot n cold feed. I only need to hold it steady enough for wash water.

Hot water also comes from a combination boiler, so could cause some problems!

Anyone got any ideas?

The only thing I found when I looked was thermostatically controlled shower attachments.

eg
http://www.keidel.com/design/select/showers-valve.htm

For films you don't need running water, and if you use Ilford's wash technique you don't need much water either. I prefer to wash a little longer but just use a 5 litre beaker. For paper the wash water temperature isn't critical.

So do you really need a mixer ? You could just fit a tank in your darkroom and mix a tank full to a set temperature, or use a brew barrel or similar.

Ian

I don't have running water to my darkroom, so I use a sort of utility room which doesn't really have room for a tank (not permanently at least)

Now a brewing barrel on the other hand...I've got a few of those

Thanks for the hint, I'll give it a whirl.

Can't help directly but I use a 3kW instant water heater intended as a hand washer in commercial lavatories. It's pretty cheap and being 3kW does not need a separate power supply from the consumer unit - you can plug it in to the mains spcket (or better, use a RCD equipped spur). It's not ideal as the temperature is "controlled" by the water flow: the slower the flow, the hotter the water. I've seen much more expensive ones that claim thermostatic control but haven't looked lately.

Most of the time it can go from about 22C to 38C but in hot or cool weather the ambient temperature of the cold water supply can shift that by several degrees in either direction.

Cheers, Bob.

You mention the tap. If you have one and only one tap, my suggestion below won't work but if it is a cold tap then in Summer and to be honest most of the year,I find the temp fine for my print rinse. Ilford mentions any temp above 41F being fine. Even when a cold tap feels cold it is seldom less than 41F. For film processing, as Ian said you don't need much water and you can mix a jug to get it at about the same temp as the room temp chemicals.

If you have two taps then a visit to a DIY store to pick up Hozelock attachments will help. I run a short hose from each tap into a Hozelock Y piece and then into one piece of hose. Adjusting both the H&C taps gives a close enough approximation of the right temp. If I finish off a film rinse with running water into the tank then a thermometer just immersed into the top of the reel lets me adjust the temp and once adjusted, the water runs at close enough to a constant temp for it not to matter.

You can use this for print rinses as well. I run mine into my Nova print rinse slot, mixing the water as above. However i have this nagging doubt that by using the hot tap when I probably don't need to, I am using my hot water tank supply unnecessarily and its costing me money.

Such are the nagging doubts which have beset every Scotsman since we first noticed that some Italians were building a wall and erecting signs saying " Not Welcome to England". But for this accident of history, Newcastle Utd would be playing in the Scottish Premier League and wouldn't have the worry of visiting a Bridge at Stamford belonging to a Russian!

pentaxuser

pentaxuser - thanks for the suggestion. I actually have a mixer tap, so can bypass the hoselock setup. The mixer's the wrong shape for those sorts of attachments, only the push-on versions (like old shower kits) will work.

I do try to stabilize temperature in the washer by hand but that doesn't seem to work - temp swings wildly by up to 3 degrees either side of 20. I did rig up a digital thermometer into a short length of tube connected to the inlet and that worked quite well until the thermometer got wet and died.

Using that method I could regulate the inlet temperature quite well which was why I was trying to find an inline thermometer - as with most things photographic, they don't seem to sell them this side of the pond.

I think I'll end up just filling a large jug of water - this used to be a problem because I didn't have a big enough jug to go through the full Ilford sequence for a 1L tank. I've got some empty 5L containers which will probably work well enough now.

Ian is right. For film, use Ilfords' wash sequence. I use a standard bucket (spotlessly clean, of course) filled to water of the correct temp. For paper, I use a fill and dump sequence in my archival washer. About 6 or so changes of water at around 25c (it's much easier to control temp when you mix it in a bucket) should suffice. Most important when washing prints; use a washaid. B.

I wash film and paper with just plain cold tap water.

I wash film for at least twice the recommended time and don't have a problem with negs 30+ years old

After the fix I have a jug of 20C water to fill the tank with and then ever so slowly at first introduce cold tap water, slowly turning up the flow rate.
After 5 mins, I turn up the flow to wash rate for 15 mins in the summer & 30 mins in the winter.

I am always suprised by how "warm" my cold water is, in the summer its aprox 22C and even in January its still in the 10 to 12C temp region

Martin

In the US there are a number of options for water temp regulation (are water mains different in UK?).

Delta, Arkay, Hass Manufacturing, and Jobo all market water temp. regulators.

Also, for a B&W darkroom (as suggested) you may get by with a simple 'in-line' thermometer. Delta and Watson make these.

Here is the one I use: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/86371-REG/Watson_FLB_Flo_Temp_In_Line_Thermometer_Black.html

The UK doesn't have the extremes of temperature found in the US (or here in Turkey) and so it's very uncommon to fit a a wash temperature controller. You'd have found them in large pro-labs but they've never been sold for home darkroom use.

Unfortunately UK plumbing systems are different fitting to US, so you'd have to be careful making sure of compatibility.

Ian

ic-racer said:

are water mains different in UK?

Click to expand...

Our cold water is routed (internally) in 15mm pipe (outside diameter) which just happens to be the same size as our old 1/2" pipe (inside diameter) so old and new can use the same fittings. The same is not true of the next size up. 22mm replaced 3/4" and they are not quite the same size. 22mm is usually used for central heating and hot water in vented systems. Hot water in direct (combination boiler) systems is 15mm.

Threaded joints in the UK are BSP (British Standard Pipe) usually 1/2" and 3/4". I don't know what the US equivalents are but I would expect them to be the same as it is quite an old standard.

If you wanted to use a US device in the UK or the other way round and you had a few fittings of the 'foreign' type it wouldn't take much effort to make them fit if you were competent soldering with a gas torch.


Steve.

Depending on budget, you could ask these people:

http://www.richards.uk.com/proco-3.htm

Home page:

http://www.richards.uk.com - some interesting stuff on this site, such as the PDF "Darkroom work is not environmentally unfriendly"


Ian - how do you go about washing FB prints? I currently have a print washer in the bath and use the shower hose (with the head unscrewed of course) to feed into the pipe for the washer. Its quite a fiddle to get the temperature around 20deg. though.

Matt

The temperature isn't that critical, UK waters not usually too cold. I just use a device that fits the plug hole and allows a depth of about 3 inches in the bath. I over wash possible usually 3 hrs but that's what I prefer. Planning on using sea-water in the new darkroom, then just a final wash in tap water.

I don't have any problems washing that way as you've seen.

Must catch up with you when I'm next in the UK.

Ian

Thanks for that Ian.

At the moment the cold tap where I am seems to run at about 15 deg.C.

What's the advantage of sea water?

Matt

Matt5791 said:

What's the advantage of sea water?
Matt

Click to expand...

We sometimes have water restrictions, and are on a meter. During the summer waters brought into the town by tanker so it's expensive. Also over use can mean the supply runs out.

So when I build my new darkroom I'll fit a tank so I can use sea water to wash my prints. Sea water is also slightly more efficient for archival washing.

Ian