UK Canal Side Photography

Cogsandgears · Jan 9, 2021

I have been photographing my local stretch of the Grand Union canal for close to a decade. I'm careful and believe considerate of others wishes and never take images of interiors of the narrow boats or individuals without permission. Unfortunately today I was confronted by an irate owner and felt threatened by their large snarling dog when asked why I was taking photographs. Apparently I had been acting suspiciously. Now to me acting suspiciously is not taking scenic shots of a foggy canal and plumes of wood smoke on a cold winter's day that happen to also contain a couple of moored narrow boats whilst using an old film camera. More suspicious to me is using a phone camera. I would have discussed this with the owner but I'm not keen on large snarling dogs and preferred on this occasion to keep my distance to avoid confrontation. I believe the section of canal is owned by the Canal and River trust who don't have problems with considerate photography. Any advice would be appreciated as I would like to continue my work of documenting the canal in the future.

eddie · Jan 9, 2021

Carry a small portfolio of work you've done at that location previously. Being able to show you're not doing anything nefarious should help.

Arthurwg · Jan 9, 2021

Cogsandgears said:
I have been photographing my local stretch of the Grand Union canal for close to a decade. I'm careful and believe considerate of others and never take images of interiors of the narrow boats or individuals without permission. Unfortunately today I was confronted by an irate owner and felt threatened by by their large snarling dog when asked why I was taking photographs. Apparently I had been acting suspiciously. Now to me acting suspiciously is not taking scenic shots of a foggy canal and plumes of wood smoke on a cold winter's day that happen to also contain a couple of moored narrow boats with an old film camera. More suspicious is using a phone camera. I would have discussed this with the owner but I'm not keen on large dogs and preferred on this occasion to keep my distance to avoid confrontation. I believe the section of canal is owned by the Canal and River trust who don't have problems with considerate photography. Any advice would be appreciated as I would like to continue my work of documenting the canal in the future.

I do get the impression that living on canal boats in the UK has become problematic and that owners are often forced to move their location or come up against other problems, license fees etc. I'm working on a project now that I fear will antagonize the locals but so far it's been OK. .

Ko.Fe. · Jan 9, 2021

Cogsandgears said:
I have been photographing my local stretch of the Grand Union canal for close to a decade. I'm careful and believe considerate of others and never take images of interiors of the narrow boats or individuals without permission. Unfortunately today I was confronted by an irate owner and felt threatened by by their large snarling dog when asked why I was taking photographs. Apparently I had been acting suspiciously. Now to me acting suspiciously is not taking scenic shots of a foggy canal and plumes of wood smoke on a cold winter's day that happen to also contain a couple of moored narrow boats with an old film camera. More suspicious is using a phone camera. I would have discussed this with the owner but I'm not keen on large dogs and preferred on this occasion to keep my distance to avoid confrontation. I believe the section of canal is owned by the Canal and River trust who don't have problems with considerate photography. Any advice would be appreciated as I would like to continue my work of documenting the canal in the future.

If you are frequent in this area why not to contact Canal and River trust and ask if it is OK to take pictures. Have their answer in written and show it to next moron you would have to deal with.

Bikerider · Jan 9, 2021

Ko.Fe. said:
If you are frequent in this area why not to contact Canal and River trust and ask if it is OK to take pictures. Have their answer in written and show it to next moron you would have to deal with.

Yes indeed. A canal path is almost certainly private land and you are there under sufferance, that is not to say they will stop you but if there have been complaints it is better to be above board with those who's responsibility it is to manage the site. Much the same with Railway Stations, it used to be a big no-no in case you caused an injury to anyone or to yourself and maid a claim for compensation. They are fare more relaxed about it now so long as you take care. They do not like tripods though!
This is not to say you can go on or near any of the running lines or works because an injury there can cost thousands in lost running time.

AgX · Jan 9, 2021

Ko.Fe. said:
If you are frequent in this area why not to contact Canal and River trust and ask if it is OK to take pictures. Have their answer in written and show it to next moron you would have to deal with.

Legally they hardly would be able to make a statement that could not be rejected by the people on boats.

Over here we are facing a legal situation where just taking photos gets more and more restricted. To my understanding that is similar for the UK. The same time the awareness of common people grows on that matter, even without such limiting legislation, or even ignoring admitting legislation.

BrianShaw · Jan 9, 2021

I like England and I like English food... but some English people are just morons with their “right to privacy” when in public and assumptions that cameras and photographers are, by their very existence, “suspicious”. I was once chased down by a Town Crier who told me that it was illegal to take his photograph during his public performance unless I paid him. He, of course, wasn’t willing to have that discussion for long... even he knew that he was being a jerk.

Cogsandgears · Jan 9, 2021

Ko.Fe. said:
If you are frequent in this area why not to contact Canal and River trust and ask if it is OK to take pictures. Have their answer in written and show it to next moron you would have to deal with.

I think it may be a good idea to contact the owners. I've reviewed the website and it appears that they have a formal procedures for large productions. I'm sure a lone photographer keeping a history of there local patch won't present a problem. I'll certainly approach them. The more I think about it perhaps I'm the one who should be suspicious after such an aggressive response from the boat/dog owner.

I'm thinking of getting a few business cards as well so that at least I can be as transparent as possible.

Thanks for your suggestions to date

BrianShaw · Jan 9, 2021

Cogsandgears said:
The more I think about it perhaps I'm the one who should be suspicious after such an aggressive response from the owner.

ABSOLUTELY

Lachlan Young · Jan 9, 2021

AgX said:
Legally they hardly would be able to make a statement that could not be rejected by the people on boats.

Anyone using a boat on the canal network has to pay a licence fee.

AgX · Jan 9, 2021

But that licence hardly can contain the obligation to let one be photographed. And that like was the fear of those boat-people.

Meanwhile often there is such at closed locations, but it is hard for me to believe such could be extended onto a wateray/nature, be it a restricted area.

pentaxuser · Jan 9, 2021

Lachlan Young said:
Anyone using a boat on the canal network has to pay a licence fee.

And therein may lie the problem. The Canal and River Trust has a major problem with boat owners not paying their licences. Equally there may have been some other activity going on that was not apparent to the OP but which the owner is worried about in terms of what might be revealed. He may even be under a warning from the Canal and River Trust for some reason

OP which Northamptionshire section was this? So far I have taken a few shots over the years on the Grand Union and have never has any issue but admittedly this was in the more rural areas and not Northampton itself, assuming it was a section within the boundaries of Northampton. I think it always worthwhile engaging with a boat owner to say it was not your intention to intrude and you are sorry if it seemed that way. it is amazing how often that kind of empathy with the angry person's emotions has a disarming effect. An offer of a small print once you have developed the film and made prints assuming he is still there next time tells him that this is not an instant photo that is about to wing its way across the internet. I fear that a camera may register simply as a camera these days and be used not for the pleasure of photography as we on Photrio understand its purpose. A lot of folks need to be educated in a nice way that not all cameras are the same and nor are the motives of the photographer using an old film camera

Don't let it put you off or stop doing what you are doing. Sounds like a great way to spend time taking photographs.

pentaxuser

BrianShaw · Jan 9, 2021

pentaxuser said:
I fear that a camera may register simply as a camera these days and be used not for the pleasure of photography as we on Photrio understand its purpose.

That’s the absurdity... baseless fear and assumption of “suspicious behavior”.

PINAC

Cloudy · Jan 9, 2021

eddie said:
Carry a small portfolio of work you've done at that location previously. Being able to show you're not doing anything nefarious should help.

I second this suggestion along as bringing business cards with your website address if you do have one

Bikerider · Jan 9, 2021

AgX said:
Legally they hardly would be able to make a statement that could not be rejected by the people on boats.

.

Actually I think they could. For the same reason as I mentioned before. A canal is a private water and if they make a nuisance of themselves they could be told to go elsewhere. There will be some long printed list of do's and don'ts which they will have had to agree to before they were able to use the facilities. I don't suspect it would happen very often, they don't want to chase paying guests away, but if the situation became intolerable they could be told they were not welcome.

I have just remembered a friend of mine now works for a canal company an I will contact him and see what the conditions are.

Willyekerslike · Jan 9, 2021

Tricky one,

First question to OP. What are you doing tramping a narrow canal towpath when the whole of england is in lockdown and you are suppse to be at home and only going out for essential journies. To me, your activities today appear suspicious at least.

pentaxuser · Jan 9, 2021

Willyekerslike said:
Tricky one,

First question to OP. What are you doing tramping a narrow canal towpath when the whole of england is in lockdown and you are suppse to be at home and only going out for essential journies. To me, your activities today appear suspicious at least.

Maybe the OP will answer all our questions but he may simply have walked to the canal or driven only a short distance to it. At this time of year there are few walkers on canal paths and indeed in my experience which is fairly extensive along the Grand Union and Oxford Canals is that there were never very many walkers there even when there was no Covid.

I doubt if in what seems to be the heat of the moment reaction he got that it was anything to do with Covid rules which of course does not preclude one session of daily exercise anyway

pentaxuser

Cogsandgears · Jan 9, 2021

Willyekerslike said:
Tricky one,

First question to OP. What are you doing tramping a narrow canal towpath when the whole of england is in lockdown and you are suppse to be at home and only going out for essential journies. To me, your activities today appear suspicious at least.

The canal is a few hundred metres from my home and I use it for my daily and limited socially distanced exercise. Few people use the tow path in such cold, gloomy conditions. I live in a rural location on the limits of a small town. Boat owners tend to Moor close to the town for amenities.

BrianShaw · Jan 9, 2021

You may have just run into someone who was having a bad day...

Cogsandgears · Jan 9, 2021

AgX said:
But that licence hardly can contain the obligation to let one be photographed. And that like was the fear of those boat-people.

Meanwhile often there is such at closed locations, but it is hard for me to believe such could be extended onto a wateray/nature, be it a restricted area.

I agree that those using the canal do not have the obligation to be photographed. However, nor do those living in a town centres or my own street for that matter. I make efforts to ensure that I photograph boats as part of a scene. And only if it's really worth the use of the film. I shall continue to do this and see it as "street photography". For me the same rules apply with discretion. In this case the boat was not named yet was advertising goods for sale on the towpath . In a way it was a shop. It had little expectation of privacy.
I will contact the waterways owners for their definitive view.

Thanks for your responses and views

Cogsandgears · Jan 9, 2021

BrianShaw said:
You may have just run into someone who was having a bad day...

I think this was probably the case. Certainly the snarling dog was.

Sirius Glass · Jan 9, 2021

Cogsandgears said:
I agree that those using the canal do not have the obligation to be photographed. However, nor do those living in a town centres or my own street for that matter. I make efforts to ensure that I photograph boats as part of a scene. And only if it's really worth the use of the film. I shall continue to do this and see it as "street photography". For me the same rules apply with discretion. In this case the boat was not named yet was advertising goods for sale on the towpath . In a way it was a shop. It had little expectation of privacy.
I will contact the waterways owners for their definitive view.

Thanks for your responses and views

If necessary a long lens will still allow you to take your photographs.

BrianShaw · Jan 9, 2021

Cogsandgears said:
In this case the boat was not named yet was advertising goods for sale on the towpath .

Black market? That could explain things...

MattKing · Jan 9, 2021

The last time I checked, people don't own the light that hits them, either before or after it is reflected toward the camera lens.
They may have an ownership interest in the use of their photographic image.
And the canal owners probably have the ability to impose conditions on the actions of those who use their properties.
But absent specific legislation, I can't see how people who are on the canal have the legal right to control the actions of photographers who are nearby.

Ko.Fe. · Jan 9, 2021

Cogsandgears said:
I think it may be a good idea to contact the owners. I've reviewed the website and it appears that they have a formal procedures for large productions. I'm sure a lone photographer keeping a history of there local patch won't present a problem. I'll certainly approach them. The more I think about it perhaps I'm the one who should be suspicious after such an aggressive response from the boat/dog owner.

I'm thinking of getting a few business cards as well so that at least I can be as transparent as possible.

Thanks for your suggestions to date

I was in UK and photographed boats on channels. Didn't encounter morons with dogs asking about why I'm taking pictures. I guess they realized it was no point to ask me. I'm ain't afraid of dogs. They are of me.

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