Ugh...I just massacred some film...

duparis00 · Mar 21, 2014

Hey All,

So I got myself a 1L C-41 powder kit from Argentix and decided to develop a roll of proplus II and superia 800 I had lying around. I just finished my first experience developing and the film is hanging to be dried. Good news is the negative looks great, the bad news is when I was spooling the film on the reel in the dark bag, I did it very badly and didn't know it. A lot of the film is warped. I was practicing with a roll of expired film for 2 days and thought I had it...but I guess not.

Anyone have any tricks with using the changing bag or is it just a matter of practice and just knowing by feel that you got it right?

Ghostman · Mar 21, 2014

It is just practice. Saying that though, I prefer not to use a bag. I prepare my reels in the bathroom, with the lights out of course and the door edges sealed. I always put things in the same place so that I can feel my way around in the dark, but I have the freedom or use more space and unroll/re-roll if required.

jspillane · Mar 21, 2014

It's mostly practice... and the quality/condition of your reels. What are you using? People who have trouble with steel reels often find the Paterson style much easier. I learned on metal reels and prefer them for the most part, but I have to say I've never had a lost frame using Paterson. When in doubt while winding on, I find it useful to occasionally tap along the surface of the film to make sure it is laying flat; if you feel any unevenness or crinkles, just calmly start over from the beginning. The whole thing should go on smooth-- once you have a feel for it, you can realize very quickly if it is going on wrong. Also, make sure everything (the reels, your hands, etc.) is clean and bone dry before starting.

120 film is far easier to put on a reel without damaging it than 35mm, for what it is worth.

Rick A · Mar 21, 2014

Therein lies the problem with spooling film in a changing bag, heat and humidity generated by hands cause problems that can go undetected.

duparis00 · Mar 21, 2014

jspillane said:
It's mostly practice... and the quality/condition of your reels. What are you using? People who have trouble with steel reels often find the Paterson style much easier. I learned on metal reels and prefer them for the most part, but I have to say I've never had a lost frame using Paterson. When in doubt while winding on, I find it useful to occasionally tap along the surface of the film to make sure it is laying flat; if you feel any unevenness or crinkles, just calmly start over from the beginning. The whole thing should go on smooth-- once you have a feel for it, you can realize very quickly if it is going on wrong. Also, make sure everything (the reels, your hands, etc.) is clean and bone dry before starting.

120 film is far easier to put on a reel without damaging it than 35mm, for what it is worth.

Yeah I'm using the metal reels I got a large set last week. I was so made I just spent an hour practicing in the change bag again with exposed film and I'm starting to get the feel of it now. I think I was too anxious and nervous and things just didn't register, when I calmed down I was getting it pretty consistently. It's good to know the 120s are easier I'm just about done a roll of 220 as well as an expired roll of 35. Going to try again tonight. Thanks for the tips!

duparis00 · Mar 21, 2014

Yeah it definitely got very humid very quickly. Unfortunately I have small condo washroom and it's facing 2 large windows...I just don't trust it enough to black it out. If it happens a few more times though I think I'll have to seek alternative methods though.

duparis00 · Mar 21, 2014

Ghostman said:
It is just practice. Saying that though, I prefer not to use a bag. I prepare my reels in the bathroom, with the lights out of course and the door edges sealed. I always put things in the same place so that I can feel my way around in the dark, but I have the freedom or use more space and unroll/re-roll if required.

That may have to be my plan B if I wreck a few more rolls. At least I'm shooting with mostly cheap or expired film. If I did it with a portra or a 400h I think I'd be slamming my head against a wall right now lol.

bvy · Mar 21, 2014

Go to the bathroom.

snapguy · Mar 21, 2014

love that film

It's like making love. Practice helps a lot. And doing it in the right circumstances helps a lot. Doin' it in the front seat of a VW Bug can be done, but I don't recommend it.

peteyj10 · Mar 21, 2014

If you wreck any more film, I'd say switch to plastic tank and reels. I have never been able to use stainless without losing at least few frames per roll. Plastic on the other hand has never given me any problems. For most, enough practice allows for perfect results with stainless....but for some, including myself, no amount of practice will help.

Terry Christian · Mar 21, 2014

When loading film into a metal reel, run your hand over the top and bottom of the reel (perpendicular to the film) to check if you can feel any film edges protruding. If so, then something is wrong. If not, then you've probably loaded it correctly. I also tend to hold the film, slightly cupped, stationary on one hand and just rotate the reel in the other hand. It seems easier that way for me.

Jaf-Photo · Mar 21, 2014

duparis00 said:
Hey All,

So I got myself a 1L C-41 powder kit from Argentix and decided to develop a roll of proplus II and superia 800 I had lying around. I just finished my first experience developing and the film is hanging to be dried. Good news is the negative looks great, the bad news is when I was spooling the film on the reel in the dark bag, I did it very badly and didn't know it. A lot of the film is warped. I was practicing with a roll of expired film for 2 days and thought I had it...but I guess not.

Anyone have any tricks with using the changing bag or is it just a matter of practice and just knowing by feel that you got it right?

One small trick is to use thin vinyl gloves of the medical type when reeling film. That makes it easier to handle the film freely.

I also use plastic Paterson reels, which are very easy to use. The only problem I've had was from chemical residue on a reel that wasn't properly washed.

Thomas Bertilsson · Mar 21, 2014

Load one film at a time, put it in the tank, close it. Then air out the changing bag and do the second roll.

Or simply develop one roll at a time.

I use Hewes stainless steel reels. With 35mm it's virtually impossible to load them incorrectly, because the film is guided by its own sprocket holes when you spool it. Very convenient and fool proof (my dexterity is not the greatest). The 120 reels are almost as easy.

With plastic reels it is, as many have said, important to have bone dry reels. Humidity from just your own hands inside the changing bag can be enough to cause trouble. I too live in an area that is very humid in the summer, 95% relative humidity is not uncommon. Loading film in those conditions is borderline impossible when using plastic reels of any kind.

You might also try purchasing a film changing tent. The air volume inside the tent is much larger than inside a changing bag, which really helps with the humidity issue. Unfortunately in very low humidity the synthetic material they are made of will cause lots of static electricity, which makes it difficult for sheet film users and the dust situation when they load film into film holders.

Fixcinater · Mar 21, 2014

Definitely prefer plastic reels myself, changing bag humidity can be a problem but with a lot of practice I generally can get whatever I need to do done before it becomes a real issue.

peter k. · Mar 21, 2014

I use plastic reels, and changing bag.
The secret I have found with the changing bag and humidity, is I use it first thing in the morning when its cool.

pentaxuser · Mar 21, 2014

So the negatives are all fine but the film is warped. Have I got this correct? The usual problem with a changing bag as others have said is the humidity and the problem this results in is that the film sticks to the reel in places and bends there. The end result is that the area of the film in contact with the reel lacks full contact with the processing chemicals but this in turn affects those areas of the negatives so some negatives are badly affected.

However your negs are all OK?

pentaxuser

Maris · Mar 21, 2014

Make the work space in the changing bag as big as possible by putting a cardboard carton in it first. Beer cartons with arm holes cut in them work well for me.

duparis00 · Mar 21, 2014

Good advice guys, sex and film! lol...I'm doing 2 more tonight, 1 35mm and 1 120. Both expired film so the pressure is off a little, maybe I can do it right this time. Keep you posting.

mexipike · Mar 21, 2014

If you want to continue to use steel reels, I highly recommend picking up some Hewes reels. I used to have issued with steel reels until I got the Hewes and my problems disappeared. The loading system is a million times better and very easy. I have used Patterson sets and have definitely messed up rolls with them too but have never had an issue with the Hewes.

duparis00 · Mar 21, 2014

pentaxuser said:
So the negatives are all fine but the film is warped. Have I got this correct? The usual problem with a changing bag as others have said is the humidity and the problem this results in is that the film sticks to the reel in places and bends there. The end result is that the area of the film in contact with the reel lacks full contact with the processing chemicals but this in turn affects those areas of the negatives so some negatives are badly affected.

However your negs are all OK?

pentaxuser

About half of the film is ok the other half have what look like blobs or drops around then, that's probably from the issue you described when I rolled it wrong on the reel. It's also hard getting the film on the film holder of the scanner now. I'm doing some scans as we speak.

pentaxuser · Mar 21, 2014

Thanks for that, David. I had the impression that all or nearly all the negs were OK whereas what I think you are saying is that the OK negs are completely OK but those that kinked on the reel are useless.

I don't know what reels you are using but if they are Jobo reels I'd feed it on by holding the edges of the film and pushing slowly. If you feel it sticking then pull back and then try again. Do not try to push to overcome the resistance. That's when kinking occurs

You can help by running a pencil over the reels. The graphite deposited helps. Make sure that the reels are thoroughly cleaned and dry. Avoid using photoflo or other wetting agents on the reels.

Durst reels rely on a winder into which you lead the film leader onto the centre of the reel. Once the leader has been caught under the sprung tongue in the centre then it is wound on and sweat on your hand is irrelevant. If using a changing bag it is probably the best system but the Durst tanks are not designed for rotary processing so if it's C41 then it means hand agitation and a water bath.

pentaxuser

duparis00 · Mar 21, 2014

The Proplus II came out ok, at least the ones I could salvage. The Superia 800 looked horrendous, although it's my first time shooting 800iso so maybe its the combination of that and a low res scan, but I really didn't like anything from the superia.

Ugh...I just massacred some film...

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