Two Silver Gelatin Dry Plate Questions

analog65 · Oct 2, 2016

Question 1
I am curious if the historic silver gelatin dry plate negative emulsions could be successfully coated on substrates other than the classic glass plates?

Question 2
Is it possible to use a reversal developer to make positives on glass plates from silver gelatin negative emulsions? If so, any ideas on a formula for the developer?

As I continue to explore more on the historic dry plates emulsions and processes, more questions come to mind!

removed account4 · Oct 2, 2016

hello

there were a variety of different emulsions over the years coated onto dry plates. thelightfarm.com has a variety of recipes and the book
that denise ross made ( she runs the light farm ) has recipes and techniques if you want to cook your own. you can also purchase emulsion in a bottle.
foma makes some, and liquid light does too. there used to be a few other brands but i don't know if they are still around anymore. the folks at rockland colloid
make liquid light, and they make a few different emulsions and they have a kit for making silver gelatin tintypes and glass reversals as well. there is a proprietary developer they
make and sell that develops and bleaches the image on the black plate or glass to look like a direct positive.

there is information here: http://albumen.conservation-us.org/library/monographs/sunbeam/

for a variety of historic recipes and developers &c. when coating glass plates the tricky part is getting the emulsion to stick to the glass because it is non porous
once you clean the glass you can put a coating of gelatin on it before coating, i use a pizza stone i put in the freezer, after i pour the plate i put it on the cold stone and it holds the glass tight.
you are lucky there are places like the light farm and emulsion scientists like photo engineer here, when i first started making emulsion, coating and using dry plates ( 1980s ) it was a lot of hit or miss and learning
on my own ... with the internets its all at your fingertips !

good luck !
john

analog65 · Oct 2, 2016

Hi John, thanks a lot for replying.

I have been making the AmBr emulsion from the lightfarm website and coating some glass plates for a few months now. I really like it a lot. I also picked up Denise's book, however, I didn't see any mention of substrate other than glass or film discussed in the book for negative emulsions. Maybe I am exploring something that just isn't possible?

I asked the questions in my original post because I am wanting to expand in a new direction if it is even possible. We know that one can make their own silver gelatin emulsion and pour it onto tintype plates (Rockland), but one would need the proprietary reversal developer from Rockland. Is that correct? I have done wet plate for about 8 years now, so I have plenty of black aluminum plates available to test with if I can find a way to make my own developer.

PE, any input on a reversal developer for silver gelatin on black aluminum plates? Or, am I stuck with buying a commercial developer?

jnanian said:
hello

there were a variety of different emulsions over the years coated onto dry plates. thelightfarm.com has a variety of recipes and the book
that denise ross made ( she runs the light farm ) has recipes and techniques if you want to cook your own. you can also purchase emulsion in a bottle.
foma makes some, and liquid light does too. there used to be a few other brands but i don't know if they are still around anymore. the folks at rockland colloid
make liquid light, and they make a few different emulsions and they have a kit for making silver gelatin tintypes and glass reversals as well. there is a proprietary developer they
make and sell that develops and bleaches the image on the black plate or glass to look like a direct positive.

there is information here: http://albumen.conservation-us.org/library/monographs/sunbeam/

for a variety of historic recipes and developers &c. when coating glass plates the tricky part is getting the emulsion to stick to the glass because it is non porous
once you clean the glass you can put a coating of gelatin on it before coating, i use a pizza stone i put in the freezer, after i pour the plate i put it on the cold stone and it holds the glass tight.
you are lucky there are places like the light farm and emulsion scientists like photo engineer here, when i first started making emulsion, coating and using dry plates ( 1980s ) it was a lot of hit or miss and learning
on my own ... with the internets its all at your fingertips !

good luck !
john

removed account4 · Oct 3, 2016

hi analog65:

as long as you can figure out the reversal developer, buy it or reverse engineer your own
you can make silver gelatin tintypes with it. if you are using trophy aluminum you will have to sand down
the plates a little bit to give a "tooth" or the emulsoin might not stick well
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
most people make these with bottled emulsion, but there is no reason you can't do this with your own.
i have stopped coating metal / glass as much but coat (less expensive) paper instead. for me it is less trouble.

good luck !

john

analog65 · Oct 4, 2016

what paper are you coating? and, are you using the Rockland emulsion on your paper?

This sounds like it might be a good option for me to try too.

jnanian said:
hi analog65:

as long as you can figure out the reversal developer, buy it or reverse engineer your own
you can make silver gelatin tintypes with it. if you are using trophy aluminum you will have to sand down
the plates a little bit to give a "tooth" or the emulsoin might not stick well
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
most people make these with bottled emulsion, but there is no reason you can't do this with your own.
i have stopped coating metal / glass as much but coat (less expensive) paper instead. for me it is less trouble.

good luck !

john

Photo Engineer · Oct 4, 2016

Any washed emulsion can be coated on glass, film, paper and etc., as long as the substrate is prepped properly for adhesion. There are always necessary adjustments to give you the desired contrast though. Contrast generally doubles when you coat on paper. Also, hardening is needed when you coat on glass or other similar supports. It can be in the process through a hardening fix or prehardener or it can be in the emulsion. If in the emulsion, Chrome Alum is preferred as it adheres to glass better.

For reversal processing, hardening is a must due to the acidity of the bleach step.

PE

removed account4 · Oct 4, 2016

analog65 said:
what paper are you coating? and, are you using the Rockland emulsion on your paper?

This sounds like it might be a good option for me to try too.

hi analog65
i have been a variety of different papers
cheap smooth and thin is what i like to coat !
not too fond of dense watercolor papers.
for about 15 years now, i have coated a lot of virgin ( uncoated ) butcher paper
and borden & reily "velum" ( comes in a pad ).
i have also been using 14x17 xerox paper for a couple of years.
xerox stuff + butcher paepr waxes very well
i don't mind coating glass and metal but it gets $$ after a while
i make cyanotypes with all these papers too
for a few years now, i have been getting xerox machine negatives
and waxing them with cheap supermarket paraffin isn't hard.
as for emulsion i have used ...
mostly the liquid light (rockland ) variety. some of their single grade, some vc, and ag+.
i've also used foma emulsion ( gotten cheap / short date ) and some made my self
which was a quick+dirty chlorobromide emulsion that i plan on refining and making some more of.
PE was gracious enough to send me a little of his emulsion years ago, but unfortunately
my family life didn't allow me to use it before it got moldy otherwise i'd say i used
his azo (?) emulsion as well.

have fun! and be careful, its kind of addicting.

john

Two Silver Gelatin Dry Plate Questions

analog65

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analog65

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analog65

Photo Engineer

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