Two Gossen Luna Pros do not work correctly with the battery adaptor

Mahler_one · Dec 16, 2012

Well, I thought that an older Gossen Luna Pro could be brought back to life using the offered battery adaptor that allows one to inser the adaptor into the meter, and use two modern batteries. Evidently I was wrong.

Much to my surprise, after inserting the adaptor with fresh batteriesand "zeroing" the meters, they both read exactly the same high and low values....but the values are incorrect. My Sekonic meter reads values that are considerably lower, and negatives exposed using the Sekonic are perfect.

For example, the Sekonic 508 will read EV values of 10 and 13. Both Luna Pros will read values of 13 and 16. Exposing for the shadows at an EV of 13 would be completely wrong.

Has anyone had similar problems of "high" readings with Gossen Luna Pro meters that have been equipped with the battery adaptor? Is the voltage incorrect? I had read that many who purchased the battery adaptor were pleased, and the meter was working correctly. I guess both meters could be broken...but at the same time, and reading the exact same EV values? The only common thread is the adaptor.

Thanks for the help.

MattKing · Dec 17, 2012

For clarity, which version of the meter are you referring to? I ask because the names of the different models vary depending on where the meter is distributed from.

For one of my meters at least (I have two, and they are of different vintages) they are badged "Lunasix 3 and they have both a "Transfer Scale" and an "EV Scale". If you are reading from the "Transfer Scale" it will yield numbers that are 3 more than the corresponding numbers on the EV scale.

Jerevan · Dec 17, 2012

Some other things to think of: the zeroing, is it done correctly? And what metering mode do you use the 508 in? Is the testing done in a controlled environment?

chriscrawfordphoto · Dec 17, 2012

Keep in mind also that the Luna Pro uses a CdS metering cell, which is more sensitive to red and yellow light than the Silicon Blue Cell in your newer Sekonic. The Luna Pro will read higher in Incandescent or Tungsten light than a modern meter. Check them in daylight, if you haven't done so.

Роберт · Dec 17, 2012

The zero value should not change when using the transfer from 2x PX625 1,35V (Mercury) to the V206A adapter 2x SR44 1,55V (Silveroxide) batteries.
The build in Schottky diode brings it back to a stable 2,7V operating voltage. Comparing the EV F/t iso values over a wide range they are within 1/3F stop of my Leica M7 metering system which is also about the same for my M645 pro AE prisma metering and even on the C.V. Bessa III 667, non TTL exposure meter. Values from 4s - 1/1000s (1/4000s (EOS) ) I can check. The very long exposure possibility from a Gossen Lunasix-3 / (3S) -4EV +20EV is over every camera metering system I have. Concerning the reciproke correction of most films it is not a big deal because +/- 20% in this area you do not see much difference.

Mahler_one · Dec 17, 2012

Thanks very much for all of the input and interesting suggestions. Let me answer the questions posed:

Both meters are Luna-Pro meters. One on them had CdS written on the lower part of the face, and the other has no further information concerning the cell.

All readings were done in daylight, several different days, directly outside my front door in Florida. I moved from sunlight to shadows and took multiple readings with all meters.

The "white dome" was in the correct position each time.

Only incident readings were taken. I tend to use incident metering, and am very familiar with the foibles of using various metesr for incident readings.

Matt-I don't see any "transfer" scale on my meters. Perhaps I am missing something quite obvious? One simply reads the EV values, and moves the dial.

I am judging the meters purely on where the red pointer moves when the measurement are taken.

Elliot

benjiboy · Dec 17, 2012

I suggest Elliot you get them checked by a professional if you need a definitive answer to your questions, everybody has an opinion, but that's all they are.

BrianShaw · Dec 17, 2012

This is just an opinion, but...

I use a LunaPro with adapter and the transition from merc batts to adapter was seamless. I suspect you may need to brush up on the instruction manual. I do not intend to be offensive in any way but if, on the Luna Pro, you are not taking the number indicated by the needle (Light Value) and transfering it to the calculator you are omitting the important impact of film speed on your exposure information.

Arvee · Dec 17, 2012

I have a couple of these meters also and use the battery adapters. First, the scale read by the pointer is not in EV; you must read the pointer scale, then rotate the dial to the pointer indicated number on the yellow scale (yellow triangle) and then read the EV below that with the black triangle.

A quick check of accuracy: set ISO to 100, mode to incident reading (slide dome over center), aim at sun on bright sunny day. Reading should be 20 (plus/minus a smidge) on the pointer scale, set 20 on the yellow scale and EV should read 15. If this is so, all is well and the meter is accurate.

BTW, Gossen meters indicate about 2/3 stop higher than most Japanese calibrated meters. German meters use a different calibration protocol than Japan; German meters use 5600K vs. Japan's 3400K color temperature light sources (might be off a tad on the temps as I am recalling these numbers from memory).

The usual problem is that the protector/lens on the sensor gets cloudy from grunge/oils and the meter will read lower than normal. The meter has to be taken apart and the lens and protective cover need to be cleaned.

The Luna Pro is a great meter. The only drawback is that the meter has a bit of a 'memory;' if you have read a bright area and immediately read a much darker area, the meter needs several seconds to settle into the correct reading. This is inherent with all CdS sensors.

BrianShaw · Dec 17, 2012

Fred Aspen said:
BTW, Gossen meters indicate about 2/3 stop higher than most Japanese calibrated meters. German meters use a different calibration protocol than Japan; German meters use 5600K vs. Japan's 3400K color temperature light sources (might be off a tad on the temps as I am recalling these numbers from memory).

... and there is also the mysterious K-factor differences.

BetterSense · Dec 17, 2012

Matt-I don't see any "transfer" scale on my meters. Perhaps I am missing something quite obvious? One simply reads the EV values, and moves the dial.

If you do that, your meter will read several stops off.

My luna-pro has a silver EV scale and a yellow transfer scale. You have to use the yellow scale to set the dial calculator. The EV scale is several stops different. I'm not sure why there are two scales at all.

Chan Tran · Dec 17, 2012

Keep the meter in exact position, open the dome to switch it to reflected mode. The reading should be 2.7 EV or so higher. If not then the meter probrably always in reflected light mode.

MattKing · Dec 17, 2012

Is this the meter you have: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Gossen-Luna-...663591?pt=US_Light_Meters&hash=item20ce27ba67 ?

If so, you can see the two different scales near the bottom.

By the way, after posting last night I figured out that the difference between the scales will vary if you change the ISO/ASA/EI setting.

Which makes sense, as EV is independent of film speed, while the exposure readings you use are not.

AgX · Dec 17, 2012

Chan Tran said:
Keep the meter in exact position, open the dome to switch it to reflected mode. The reading should be 2.7 EV or so higher. If not then the meter probrably always in reflected light mode.

There is no "reflected light mode" (in any meter with a dome), in the meaning of a switch. Aside of enlarging the angle of coverage, the dome acts as 82% grey-filter. That's all.

bobwysiwyg · Dec 17, 2012

AgX said:
There is no "reflected light mode" (in any meter with a dome), in the meaning of a switch. Aside of enlarging the angle of coverage, the dome acts as 82% grey-filter. That's all.

Could you explain this statement in more detail?

Arvee · Dec 17, 2012

Bob,

For example, Minolta meters have an electrical switch which is activated or not activated when using the dome or reflected light attachment. Gossen meters have no switch, they simply have the dome over the sensor in incident mode or moved aside during reflected mode. Sekonic meters do not have such a switch.

I think Chan was thinking of the Minolta meter when he posted.

bobwysiwyg · Dec 17, 2012

Yes, I understand. I thought you were perhaps saying something else.

Vaughn · Dec 17, 2012

We have a couple of Luna Pro SBC that match up with all the other meters in reflective light mode, but will read two stops off in incident light mode. I am wondering if the domes are aging and yellowing -- perhaps transmitting less light than originally.

Arvee · Dec 17, 2012

My Gossens with aging/yellowing domes are only 1/3 stop difference from the latest Luna Pro F with the bluish dome. Two stops seems like an unlikely difference caused by dome aging, unless there is some blockage inside the dome. You might take a magnifier and look into the sensor and see if there is any grunge in there.

Insect nest inside the dome?

AgX · Dec 17, 2012

Oops, I did not know of that Minolta switch...
I'm sorry for that!

But: Why do it complicated when you can do it simple?

Answer:
That grey-filter acting dome reduces the effective sensibiltiy of the meter in the incident lighting mode. Using a switch on the electric circuit and a more transparent dome gives more sensitivity in that mode.
However, that dome will have a certain opacity anyway in order to be effective. And any photographer working under such conditions should be able to do incident light metering without dome and to re-calculate the result...

Chan Tran · Dec 17, 2012

Fred Aspen said:
Bob,

For example, Minolta meters have an electrical switch which is activated or not activated when using the dome or reflected light attachment. Gossen meters have no switch, they simply have the dome over the sensor in incident mode or moved aside during reflected mode. Sekonic meters do not have such a switch.

I think Chan was thinking of the Minolta meter when he posted.

Yeah my bad being familiar with the Minolta meters. I had the Luna Pro for about a few days before I broke it. Some of the older Minolta's have 2 pointers one for incident and another for reflected instead of a switch.

E. von Hoegh · Dec 18, 2012

Mahler_one said:
Thanks very much for all of the input and interesting suggestions. Let me answer the questions posed:

Both meters are Luna-Pro meters. One on them had CdS written on the lower part of the face, and the other has no further information concerning the cell.

All readings were done in daylight, several different days, directly outside my front door in Florida. I moved from sunlight to shadows and took multiple readings with all meters.

The "white dome" was in the correct position each time.

Only incident readings were taken. I tend to use incident metering, and am very familiar with the foibles of using various metesr for incident readings.

Matt-I don't see any "transfer" scale on my meters. Perhaps I am missing something quite obvious? One simply reads the EV values, and moves the dial.
I am judging the meters purely on where the red pointer moves when the measurement are taken.

Elliot

You're using it incorrectly.

When all else fails read the instructions.http://www.butkus.org/chinon/flashes_meters/gossen_luna-pro/gossen_luna-pro.htm

Mahler_one · Dec 18, 2012

Thanks for the suggestion. However, I have read the instruction book several times. I must be missing something that you find very obvious. I would very much appreciate your telling me where I am making my mistake. Slide the white slider over the window.....take a reading....where is the error that you find is obvious?

See below....at this point, I am only interested in the EV values that the meter supplies for the highlights and the shadows. To be clear: Those values are very different from the high and low values supplied by the Sekonic.

Thanks again for helping.

Mahler_one · Dec 18, 2012

Yes, I am aware of the different transfer scales. The silver scale is for those whose exposures can be set on a camera with a shutter that uses EV values.

Using BTZS methods one is only interested in the EV values for the high and low readings.

I must have misunderstood Matt's point....of course the "transfer scales" are the "dial"....

Again, I am interested in why the EV values as read on the Luna Pro are different from the EV values that are read on the Sekonic. Not interested at all, at this point, in the dial and the exposure that is determined from obtaining the exposure via the yellow arrow being lined up with the EV value that is read from the meter.

Simply the high and low values of incident readings with the Luna Pro meters....

E. von Hoegh · Dec 18, 2012

Fred Aspen said:
I have a couple of these meters also and use the battery adapters. First, the scale read by the pointer is not in EV; you must read the pointer scale, then rotate the dial to the pointer indicated number on the yellow scale (yellow triangle) and then read the EV below that with the black triangle.
A quick check of accuracy: set ISO to 100, mode to incident reading (slide dome over center), aim at sun on bright sunny day. Reading should be 20 (plus/minus a smidge) on the pointer scale, set 20 on the yellow scale and EV should read 15. If this is so, all is well and the meter is accurate.

BTW, Gossen meters indicate about 2/3 stop higher than most Japanese calibrated meters. German meters use a different calibration protocol than Japan; German meters use 5600K vs. Japan's 3400K color temperature light sources (might be off a tad on the temps as I am recalling these numbers from memory).

The usual problem is that the protector/lens on the sensor gets cloudy from grunge/oils and the meter will read lower than normal. The meter has to be taken apart and the lens and protective cover need to be cleaned.

The Luna Pro is a great meter. The only drawback is that the meter has a bit of a 'memory;' if you have read a bright area and immediately read a much darker area, the meter needs several seconds to settle into the correct reading. This is inherent with all CdS sensors.

This gentleman has already explained it.

Two Gossen Luna Pros do not work correctly with the battery adaptor

Mahler_one

MattKing

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Jerevan

chriscrawfordphoto

Роберт

Mahler_one

benjiboy

BrianShaw

Arvee

BrianShaw

BetterSense

Chan Tran

MattKing

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AgX

bobwysiwyg

Arvee

bobwysiwyg

Vaughn

Arvee

AgX

Chan Tran

E. von Hoegh

Mahler_one

Mahler_one

E. von Hoegh

Two Gossen Luna Pros do not work correctly with the battery adaptor

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