Two bath developer

clogz · Jul 28, 2003

I'm thinking of standardizing my B&W film developing on a two bath soup. There are some great advantages such as: standard dev. time, non critical temperature etc. Anybody here got some advice or want to share experiences?

Thanks

Hans

Joe Lipka · Jul 28, 2003

Check out Ed Buffaloe's site, www.unblinkingeye.com for an article Ed and I put together on the two part version of D-23. Time, temp and other information for sheet film developing.

Jorge Oliveira · Jul 28, 2003

I use homemade Diafine for pushing TX to 1200~1600.
Not the best dev around, but the best for it.

I'm uploading to the thechnical gallery a photo of my son using flash, TX and HM Diafine, if you care to take a look.

Jorge O

baronfoxx · Jul 29, 2003

I changed to two bath developers about two years ago and have no regrets.
I get constant good results with Delta 100/ Delta 400 and Fuji acros 100.
Ialso sometimes use Ilford DDX for Delta 400

fhovie · Jul 29, 2003

I mix my own and use it for almost all my 35mm and much of my 6x6 work. Part A is 1 Ltr water, 85g Sodium Sulfite and 6.25g Metol. Part B is 12g of Sodium Metaborate in 1 Ltr water. Time and temp are not very critical. About 4 minutes in each - keep it below 80F and you can dump it all after 12 rolls or just replace Part B with fresh. It gives grain similar to D76 1:1 and is N or slightly N-. Great contrast control. -Frank

Ole · Jul 30, 2003

My "Bridge" photo was developed in "divided D23" - really D23 with a borax afterbath. I gave that one 3+3 minutes, since I wanted contraction and compensation for the 17 steps contrast range...

clogz · Jul 30, 2003

Thanks you all for your replies. One thing, though, still puzzles me: on the Diafine box it says that dev.times are not critical. So how is it possible to do N/N- development?

As I'm thinking of mixing my own soups, does anybody know a place in Europe that sells photo chemicals? Here in Holland I can't find a company that can deliver them.

Hans

roy · Jul 30, 2003

quote
does anybody know a place in Europe that sells photo chemicals?

If you include UK as part of Europe (???), I would have thought Silverprint in London would be able to help. If you refer to mainland Europe. What about Wolfgang Moersch in Germany ?

Ole · Jul 30, 2003

clogz said:
As I'm thinking of mixing my own soups, does anybody know a place in Europe that sells photo chemicals? Here in Holland I can't find a company that can deliver them.

Hans, I buy my chamicals from VWR International. Their general home page is http://www.vwr.com, which leads to a lot of national home pages. They have the most user-unfriendly of all search engines, but you will eventually find nearly everything there.

Jorge Oliveira · Jul 30, 2003

Hans

Diafine has two solutions - A and B.
Sol. A is the developer and is slightly acid, so there's (almost) no development going on in it (this is very true at 20 C).
Sol B is alkali+sulphite, and that's where all the development takes place.

Myths and Facts:

Diafine IS temperature dependent (not much, but contrast and grain increases with temp. I use it at 20 C).
Some films are way overated (PX @400 - I did not like it).
It's an extremelly compensating dev - so if it's a low contrast scene, neg will be flat.

But TX @1200~1600 gives very good night, artificial light and flash photos (high contrast scenes).
HP5+ @800 wasn't bad, also.

If you care, I can post the formula I'm using.

Jorge O

Jorge Oliveira · Jul 30, 2003

Oh, and forget about N+/N- dev - it's a fixed contrast dev.

Jorge O

Ed Sukach · Jul 30, 2003

Ole said:
Hans, I buy my chamicals from VWR International. Their general home page is http://www.vwr.com, which leads to a lot of national home pages. They have the most user-unfriendly of all search engines, but you will eventually find nearly everything there.

Ole, THANK you for this information!! I just wandered through the site and it is amazing!!

I was a little skeptical about a European company ... usually the shipping costs are prohibitive ... but VWR has offices and *distribution* centers all over the place, including here is the U.S.A.

Someone here was searching for "Digital Thermometers" ... they have an extensive selection ... and I'm looking at prices of US$23, or so...

I've bookmarked this site... Hopefully they will prove to be a valuable resource.

Their search engine appears to be OK to me ... have they changed it?

Silverpixels5 · Jul 30, 2003

VWR, Sigma/Aldrich, and Fisher Scientific are all good science companies. We order from them all here at my job. Prices for chemicals tend to be a bit higher, which may be because they are laboratory grade. But I don't think there is a chemical they don't carry. Also, if you have deep pockets they have some great laboratory equipment that makes for a very streamlined darkroom.

Ole · Jul 30, 2003

At least in Norway, there's usually a choise between ultrapure chemicals in miniscule quantities - or 50kg technical grade. Quite often the price is the same as well...

I have been unable to find Glycin, Amidol, or ammonium ferrioxalate. I have found just about everything else. The search is a lot easier if you have a CAS number. Some developing agents can be nearly impossible to find (e.g. Phenidone), others are easiest through the structural formula search (e.g. Pyrocatechol). This will probably differ a bit between the various national sites.

I now have a 25kg-sack of Sodium Thiosulphate which should be enough for a while...

Silverpixels5 · Jul 30, 2003

Ole:

Sigma carries Glycine....100g for $13.80.

No luck on the amidol and ammonium ferrioxalate.

They also have phenidone (1-phenyl-3-pyrazolidinone) in 'suitable photographic applications'. Its $18.25 for 25g and $35.55 for 100g.

Silverpixels5 · Jul 30, 2003

Just found the Amidol at Sigma as well.

Its $27.40 for 25g and $79 for 100g. It's listed under its scientific name (2,4-Diaminophenol dihydrochloride)

Donald Miller · Jul 30, 2003

Artcraft has Amidol for $51.00 in 100 gram quantity. Also $195.00 in one pound quantities. (www.artcraftchemicals.com). As I recall, I think that Aggie or someone on the west coast mentioned a really favorable price from a supplier in that area.

Jorge Oliveira · Jul 30, 2003

I don't know import duties over there - but phenidone is much cheaper in Canada (and they have very reasonable shipping rates).
See:

http://www.colba.net/~fotochem/index.htm

Jorge O

Black Dog · Jul 31, 2003

Grab a copy of The Film Developing Cookbook by Steve Anchell & Bill Troop-lots of info in there on 2 bath devs-thoroughly recommended !

BD

sergio caetano · Sep 21, 2003

According to Minor White/Zakia/Lorenz in Zone System Manual: "Compaction development by two-solution method can no longer be recommended for modern thin emulsion films, because they don't absorb sufficient developer solution to continue developing in the second bath."
Any experiences about that?

Lex Jenkins · Sep 22, 2003

There may be something to that assertion, Sergio. The only two-bath type I use, Diafine, works very well with more traditional type films like Tri-X and FP4+ (despite the revisions) and not so well with T-Max films.

I plan to try Diafine next with Efke R100 and APX 100.

Some folks swear by the results from two-bath and divided developers, others swear at 'em. The tonal characteristics can sometimes be odd, especially lower tone and highlight separations. Midtones tend to be strong, shadow detail pretty good considering the speed boost Diafine gives some films, and compressed highlights. But the light has to be just right to get the most from films developed in Diafine. When it works the results are terrific.

Annemarieke · Sep 22, 2003

Hans,
I am not sure, but I think it is prohibited in Holland to send chemicals by post. Not sure if this only applies to liquid chemicals, or also to powder chemicals, but maybe you could ask TPG.
Good luck.
Anne Marieke

martinhughesireland · Nov 16, 2011

I bought two of these reels from www.thephotoshop.ie two weeks ago so they have them in stock. Worked perfectly in my paterson tank.

Gerald C Koch · Nov 18, 2011

sergio caetano said:
According to Minor White/Zakia/Lorenz in Zone System Manual: "Compaction development by two-solution method can no longer be recommended for modern thin emulsion films, because they don't absorb sufficient developer solution to continue developing in the second bath."
Any experiences about that?

While convenient these developers distort the tonal scale of the negative. Despite what some people think they should not be used as a general method of development.

presspass · Nov 22, 2011

In addition to Anchell & Troop's Film Developing Cookbook, check the late Barry Thornton's book - I think the title is Edge of Darkness - and there's still a website up that gives his divided developer formula. It's the D-23 variant quoted above with 6.5 g of metol, 85 g. sodium sulfite for Bath A and 12 g of metaborate for Bath B. I've used it and found a slightly longer time - 5.5 to 6 minutes for 35 Tri-X at ISO 400 - works for me. I've also used the Stoeckler variant in A&T's book and that works very well with rotary processing. As in the old cereal commercial - try it, you'll like it. But don't try it with something important.

Two bath developer

clogz

Joe Lipka

Jorge Oliveira

baronfoxx

fhovie

Ole

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clogz

roy

Ole

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Jorge Oliveira

Jorge Oliveira

Ed Sukach

Silverpixels5

Ole

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Silverpixels5

Silverpixels5

Donald Miller

Jorge Oliveira

Black Dog

sergio caetano

Lex Jenkins

Annemarieke

martinhughesireland

Gerald C Koch

presspass

Two bath developer

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